Bobs buggered engine thread

[pulsarboby]

cheers steve, i will get it sorted! but must admitt im anoid by the whole situation.

gonna take the block and piston into an engineering firm today to get piston to bore clearances checked, and see if they can see what the cause was (without me saying anything).

when the car was first mapped it was kicking out black smoke from the off, the revs were also very up and down at idle from 800 to 1600rpm (surging) the man in question knew this and even said himself......'thats strange' but it was getting on in the day and i personally think he had had enough!

now when i got home with the car that night, other than the surging idle speed and black smoke, it was running fine on boost so bearing in mind japfest was the next day, i was gonna run car on track and take it back to him to try and sort out afterwards.
but afterwards never came, (and neither did getting car on track) and i honestly never thought that it could do that sort of damage in 135 miles ...who would!
now this is when the problems with tuner all start, 'as i pointed out to you steve on the phone' the other day!
its the way the situation was handled which put my back up immediately, and is bad business on his part, he has a lot to learn with his customer relation skills! but im not gonna mention any of that as its getting away from the subject in hand.

the fact which i cant remove from my thick head, is that this car had done 500 miles prior to it being mapped, it was running fine before being mapped with 170psi per cylinder, no smoke just a powerfull fast quiet engine. it gets mapped and immediately theres a problem with smoke, idling and surging! 135 miles then kaboooom end of 3k rebuild, now do you not think theres a little coincidence there?
and the customer support afterwards is quite simply non existant, your prob you sort it kind of attitude, and this is what wound me up more than the engine going bang!

even to today im still owed monies for item which was broke and for return postage of a wrongly sent out item, but ive quite frankly given up on it now, 'he obviously needs the money a damned site more than i do':roll:

im just glad i dont conduct my business the same way, if anyone ever had a problem with parts i send or work ive done to a customers vehicle, i will bend over backwards to resolve the problem and retain good faith and hopefully keep that customer, even at my own expense, and that is the way a business is expected and should be run!

as was pointed out to me earlier by fazz, i could go the legal route (with proof) but this will only delay my rebuild, cost me even more money, wind me up even more in the process, and for what! a judge to turn round and say 'mr x needs to pay back five pound a month' due to his financial situation blah blah blah, thats assuming hes found guilty!
it really just isnt worth the aggro.

ive heard very good reports on horsham developments from a few people i know and from this site, so i think when car is rebuilt again, i will drive it down there and get him to sort this big mess out, as i dont want it happening again!
its imperative that this car is mapped correctly as it is going to be used solely for racing on circuit, so will be severely abused. if it isnt done 100% correct then it will simply go bang again, but with a forge engine i should be able to get a good run for my money i would have thought:roll: :lol: :lol: i hope so anyway!

 

[steve963]

didnt know you could get de-tuners!

 

[stevepudney]

Why did you write this post complimenting Ed's work when you first had the car mapped then :? if you weren't happy with it then why didn't you say so.

and if you had the slightest suspicion that all was not well, why on earth risk everything on such a young rebuild (only 200 odd miles) for a quick blast up the road and round a track :der:

all looking good paul!

just had my car mapped today by fusion ed!
he seems to have done a good job with it.
i have left car at 1.25 boost with 3071 fitted and 700cc injectors, z32 afm!

i dont wanna push it any more than that at the mo as ive only covered two hundred miles since i rebuilt it.
after ive used it on track and its proved reliable i will then up it, but even ed reckons the car feels like a 1.4 bar boost at less than 1.2. i think its because of the 278 piper cams ive fitted, and head porting and gas flowing! they are so torquey and pull hard right through the rev range.
the car will be frighteningly fast at 1.6, to the point where my 4 pot brakes wont be good enough.
think i feel some 6 pots coming on lol, after all whats the point in all the power if you havent got the handling and stoppers to match it!!!

when the car was first mapped it was kicking out black smoke from the off, the revs were also very up and down at idle from 800 to 1600rpm (surging) the man in question knew this and even said himself......'thats strange' but it was getting on in the day and i personally think he had had enough!

now when i got home with the car that night, other than the surging idle speed and black smoke, it was running fine on boost so bearing in mind japfest was the next day, i was gonna run car on track and take it back to him to try and sort out afterwards.
but afterwards never came, (and neither did getting car on track) and i honestly never thought that it could do that sort of damage in 135 miles ...who would!
now this is when the problems with tuner all start, 'as i pointed out to you steve on the phone' the other day!
its the way the situation was handled which put my back up immediately, and is bad business on his part, he has a lot to learn with his customer relation skills! but im not gonna mention any of that as its getting away from the subject in hand.

the fact which i cant remove from my thick head, is that this car had done 500 miles prior to it being mapped, it was running fine before being mapped with 170psi per cylinder, no smoke just a powerfull fast quiet engine. it gets mapped and immediately theres a problem with smoke, idling and surging! 135 miles then kaboooom end of 3k rebuild, now do you not think theres a little coincidence there?

No not really, symptoms sound similar to a split/leaking induction hose

and also with reference to that last paragraph, mapping wasn't the only thing that would/could have changed your cars behaviour that day, you also fitted used 700 injectors and a Z32 MAF, fitting these could have changed something.


Steve

 

[pulsarboby]

steve with reference to the above, i wrote that he SEEMS to have done a good job! it was merely an answer to a question which someone had wrote, i would not take that as a compliment. it simply meant that at that particular time i had no wish or desire to put him or his work through the mill on a public forum, due to the fact that he was gonna get the chance to correct it.
and as i said previously on here, i was gonna take the car back to get it checked over again by him but it never made it that far.
and once again the reason i took it down to japfest was that i had paid up front for 2 trackdays and hotel costs prior to mapping being done, BUT the car would have not ventured on the track with the way it was running, and i never thought for one minute that a piston would be in danger of going bang (especially forged) but how wrong i was, didnt need the track for that to happen.

and as for the split or leaking induction hose, sorry but no way was that the case!
and yes z32 afm was fitted and yes 700cc injectors were fitted, and are all working fine, so no problem there!

the fact remains that something there went badly wrong, piston and block were today checked by an engineering company, who confirmed my thoughts of overfuelling and eventual overheating being the most likely cause for the melt down. the bores were miced up and are all within spec for those pistons.
even the engineer said that he had never seen such damage in so short amount of miles to occur, especially with uprated internals, and admitted it was unusual.

it doesnt matter how much you try and defend mr x, what i wrote in my last post still stands, and i will not change my opinion of him or his work.
no doubt he will occasionally get it right, as with alans car, but if i wanted to be nasty i could give you a lot more info on our friend where hes got it wrong etc etc etc! but i wont do that as the forum isnt the place to start slating people, and no good will come of it, i would however rather do that to him in person, then perhaps i would get my money back which he owes me:evil:

but tbh all i want to do now is get the thing rebuilt again, and put this sorry episode behind me.and as keiron pointed out earlier, we will never know what happened, unless i get a full written report from an independant engineer, but ive wasted enough money already and im definately not gonna waste any more on this sorry saga!

 

[MarkTurbo]

To explain to anyone reading this that doesn't already know, the emanage is a piggyback ecu that is wired in conjunction with the standard Nissan ecu and the emanage is only programed to work "outside" the realm of the OEM ecu's ability.

So in other words, if you have an emanage fitted and it's wired in correctly, when you turn the key and start the engine, it would be the factory settings of the standard Nissan ecu controlling the fuelling e.t.c. and the standard Nissan ecu continues to control things until engine load demands more fuel e.t.c. than the standard ecu can cope with, it's only at this point that the programmable/adjustable settings of the Emanage come into play. Now, from memory wasn't your car only set to 1.2 - 1.4 bar boost, if so that would mean that for the majority of the time the requirements of your engines fuelling e.t.c. would be being dealt with by the standard Nissan ecu and the settings in the emanage only coming into play when you were in the higher reaches of your set boost.

My understanding of electronics and ecu's is rather limited but are you sure thats right :? If it works as you've just described then at low revs/part throttle with the "factory settings controlling the fuelling" wouldnt it be overfuelling like mad due to the fact that 700cc injectors were being used and not standard ones :noidea:

This is a general question about how the e-manage works and not me saying i think bobbys engine damage was caused by borewash before anybody starts throwing their toys out the pram :lol:

 

[Odin]

I think you may be correct Mark ;-) :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: .


As you say the standard ECU couldn't fuel correctly for 700cc injectors with out some outside help from the E-manage :roll: .

Ah maybe that was the problem :doh: :doh: :doh: .



Rob

 

[MarkTurbo]

As you say the standard ECU couldn't fuel correctly for 700cc injectors with out some outside help from the E-manage :roll: .

Yep, but what i was getting at was that the e-manage must be doing something all the time and not just taking over from the standard ecu at a certain point like steve said :der: ;-)

 

[Odin]

Yep, but what i was getting at was that the e-manage must be doing something all the time and not just taking over from the standard ecu at a certain point like Steve said :der: ;-)

Yes you're right ;-) so Steve's post was really a load of old shite :doh: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: , What else do you expect from a pi55 stained pensioner :roll: :der: .

With those bigger injectors and the Z32 it must be tricking the standard ECU full time, So could effect the whole map not just when it's on boost.




Rob

 

[Keira]

the emanage like many other daughter boards, piggybacks standalone ecus will compensate for bigger injectors as part of its own program and not part of any map in the load cells, It just needs to know what injectors you originally had, and what injectors you've now fitted.

in simple, basic terms, 100% duty on the 500's would now be 50% duty on the 1000's

 

[pulsarboby]

ive just ordered a new set of pistons in from the states!
have now gone for cp 86.5mm with a comp of 9.0:1
hope these dont require any machining for around the oil squirters, i know nothing about these pistons.

they are meant to be harder wearing and designed more for nitrous and supercharged engines, so will have to see what there like!

im surprised they also do them with 3 various compression ratios, never had that choice with the weisco pistons.
i assume the crowns are deeper set and a different shape to allow for different ratios:?

 

[Odin]

i
hope these don't require any machining for around the oil squirters, i know nothing about these pistons.

Yes they will need machining to make room for the squirters fella, What rods are you using ?, They wouldn't fit my Par rods.




Rob

 

[jpward]

ive just ordered a new set of pistons in from the states!
have now gone for cp 86.5mm with a comp of 9.0:1
hope these dont require any machining for around the oil squirters, i know nothing about these pistons.

they are meant to be harder wearing and designed more for nitrous and supercharged engines, so will have to see what there like!

im surprised they also do them with 3 various compression ratios, never had that choice with the weisco pistons.
i assume the crowns are deeper set and a different shape to allow for different ratios:?

Erm what size of head gasket you using? :?

 

[pulsarboby]

will probably go for 2mm, bearing in mind that the car will be up in the rev range most of the time.

 

[jpward]

will probably go for 2mm will need to work it out which would be best to use at that ratio, bearing in mind that the car will be up in the rev range most of the time.

Just curious why not just go for 8.5's then with a 1.2 as most use???

Some other benifit?

 

[pulsarboby]

theres a method behind my madness;-)
all will become clear soon, thats assuming he still has the 9.0.1 in stock.

 

[jpward]

theres a method behind my madness;-)
all will become clear soon, thats assuming he still has the 9.0.1 in stock.

Humm was begining to hear the knocking from here LOL :lol:

 

[ashills]

better rod angle on the down ward stroke with a thicker headgasket ideally use the 8.5 piston though but will still be better than the 8.5 with a 1.2 gasket just take a look how the old formula 1 engines worked they dropped lots of compression and ran lots of bost with ease

 

[pulsarboby]

gonna try upping the boost with a dropped comp, somehow i think the engine will be much more reliable and more durable, and better for the type of use which it will be getting.
plus the 3071 setup is quite a strong and non laggy turbo which should be more than capable of running 1.8 upwards with a dropped comp.
also i have those big piper cams fitted which are ideal for mid and high range revs, which will up the torque significantly.

dont know how this will all work out, but if it goes according to plan, then hopefully il have a better engine in the long run with what should be a very good torque output.

but then again i could be wrong lol

 

[pulsarboby]

Yes they will need machining to make room for the squirters fella, What rods are you using ?, They wouldn't fit my Par rods.
Rob

using standard but shotpeened rods robbie!
have now just ordered the 9:1 ratio pistons, so hopefully they will be quick delivering them, then i can take the measurements down to engineers and get another block bored out.

 

[youngsyp]

Bob,

Sorry to see the state of your engine and all the work you're now gonna have to put in. On the brightside though, as you've said, hopefully the new engine will be better and more suited to what you need !

If you decide to use Horsham Developments for your mapping, are you gonna still use the E-Manage ?
I ask as they are one of the pioneers in this country for OE ecu re-mapping. And, their prices for said work are very reasonable !

Paul