EssexAaron
Member
what do you think are better on a fast road car. are coilovers too harsh?
Mcphersons V's Coilovers
- Thread starter EssexAaron
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EssexAaron
Member
i was going to get a set of D2's but i think i might get some koni's instead as every car ive had these on handled well
P
pulsarboby
Guest
kyb's, gab's, koni's, nismo struts as kieron said all are far better for a road use and the odd trackday too.
coilovers imo are very poor for road use, very hard ride, and can make a car handle even worse than standard struts, if there not setup correctly!
coilovers imo are very poor for road use, very hard ride, and can make a car handle even worse than standard struts, if there not setup correctly!
Trondelond
Active Member
So.. where do we get these items? I didn't know koni had suspension for our cars. gabs seem to be a mythical strut noone has ever actually seen 
MORF114
Active Member
I had tanabe dampers on my R before i put tein coilovers on , they are not too harsh for the road i beleive tein made two models for the R one redesigned by fulcrum for the australian road conditions and one which is designed by tein for everywhere else , my teins are just right for road (fulcrum version has a different part number) i think other models are way too hard and end up destroying your back.
(soft) Fulcrum spec tein RNN14 part number - QSN00-EZSS4
(hard) Jap spec tein RNN14 part number - QSN00-AVSS2
(soft) Fulcrum spec tein RNN14 part number - QSN00-EZSS4
(hard) Jap spec tein RNN14 part number - QSN00-AVSS2
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Trondelond
Active Member
Inserts? Sooo... how does that work then?Keira said:
Trondelond
Active Member
Oh, I've never seen inserts before. And couldn't find them on the koni pages. That's a pretty good idea, since I've ordered new standard struts. The condition of the old ones are irrelevant then, since you'll be replacing the damping bits I guess?
But doesn't the whiteline kit lower the car quite a lot?
But doesn't the whiteline kit lower the car quite a lot?
EssexAaron
Member
what a brilliant readKeira said:
You can't compare "struts" with "coilovers" since it depends on the spring rate/design also.
Plus, the whole idea of coilovers is to be able to set corner weights of your car for optimum handling.
Read - http://ezinearticles.com/?Coilover-Suspensions---Pros-and-Cons&id=12461
The proper way to adjust a threaded coil-over suspension involves using a set of scales. The whole idea of this type of suspension adjustability is to equal out the loads on tires (or bias them for circle track) for cornering ability. The fact that you can lower the car with them is just an added benefit but it is NOT their primary function. You should be aware that you can hurt the performance of your car if you don't adjust them at least reasonably close. At best, the car may not corner as well as it used to.
At worst, you may change the handling to the point of being dangerous. This sounds like an exageration but with a threaded setup you could load the front right and the left rear tires and create a car that turns left really well, but won't turn right worth a damn. Even, possibly, spinning out. All this with the car sitting perfectly level. You have the suspension, now take the time to set it up right. Find a tyre shop with some corner scales and work with them to adjust tire loading and ride height. The object is to get the cross weights (diagonal weights) even. It's not as important to get the other weights even. It's the cross weights that will sneak up on you.
Plus, the whole idea of coilovers is to be able to set corner weights of your car for optimum handling.
Read - http://ezinearticles.com/?Coilover-Suspensions---Pros-and-Cons&id=12461
The proper way to adjust a threaded coil-over suspension involves using a set of scales. The whole idea of this type of suspension adjustability is to equal out the loads on tires (or bias them for circle track) for cornering ability. The fact that you can lower the car with them is just an added benefit but it is NOT their primary function. You should be aware that you can hurt the performance of your car if you don't adjust them at least reasonably close. At best, the car may not corner as well as it used to.
At worst, you may change the handling to the point of being dangerous. This sounds like an exageration but with a threaded setup you could load the front right and the left rear tires and create a car that turns left really well, but won't turn right worth a damn. Even, possibly, spinning out. All this with the car sitting perfectly level. You have the suspension, now take the time to set it up right. Find a tyre shop with some corner scales and work with them to adjust tire loading and ride height. The object is to get the cross weights (diagonal weights) even. It's not as important to get the other weights even. It's the cross weights that will sneak up on you.
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Trondelond
Active Member
I think the koni inserts will be more than enough. I'd like to drive it more than I adjust it. ^^
But do whiteline still have these items? Can't find them on their pages. And they aren't too quick with replies via email either.
But do whiteline still have these items? Can't find them on their pages. And they aren't too quick with replies via email either.
For the majority of people yes you are correct but this is only because people buy coilover kits and let other people or garages fit them and never adjust them to suit their own driving style. This can cause issues under certain circumstances i.e braking incorrectly into corners or lifting off the throttle too sharp which can easily be dialed out using spring rates, adjustment on the shocks or setting the corner weights up.Keira said:
For those that understand how to actually drive, set-up their car and are interested in using their car and the parts fitted to it to the limit then they are perfect. Having the confidence that your car is going to do what you want when you want it in extreme circumstances is a good feeling if you drive your car hard and fast.
A geometry and corner weight set-up only costs around £120 where as a normal geometry set-up is about £40-£50. Money very well spent in my opinion as apposed to buying the loudest dump valve in the world.
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Being pedantic, macpherson is a suspension configuration, a coilover is a component. What you're asking is "Should I get adjustable ride height"
By asking you've probably answered your own question. Adjusting the ride height front vs rear is a very powerful way to adjust the way a car handles. For powerful also read easy to mess up.
The rear height needs to be 10-15mm greater than the front or the car can tend to drag its rear around. It took me a while to suss out why as it is not the affect of ride height on the centre of gravity but to do with the roll centres. Roll centres give the car an anti-roll affect that means weight is transfered down the suspension arms rather than the spring/strut. This type of weight transfer is far faster and can be used to tune a car's response on turn in. I've plotted it all out but in simple terms your roll centre drops at about x2.5 your ride height. This multiplier on your roll centres is why a small difference front to rear can completely mess up the way your car feels. This affect is more pronounced on a macpherson suspension setup than a double wishbone etc.
If you get adjustable ride height and you can't set it up yourself, then factor in a couple of hundred pounds for someone else to do it on top of fitting. Otherwise you might get the "sports setting" as one garage described it which is the car as low as possible. Don't get me onto over lowered cars :evil:
And whilst we're at it, don't get me onto over stiff cars either.
Jim
By asking you've probably answered your own question. Adjusting the ride height front vs rear is a very powerful way to adjust the way a car handles. For powerful also read easy to mess up.
The rear height needs to be 10-15mm greater than the front or the car can tend to drag its rear around. It took me a while to suss out why as it is not the affect of ride height on the centre of gravity but to do with the roll centres. Roll centres give the car an anti-roll affect that means weight is transfered down the suspension arms rather than the spring/strut. This type of weight transfer is far faster and can be used to tune a car's response on turn in. I've plotted it all out but in simple terms your roll centre drops at about x2.5 your ride height. This multiplier on your roll centres is why a small difference front to rear can completely mess up the way your car feels. This affect is more pronounced on a macpherson suspension setup than a double wishbone etc.
If you get adjustable ride height and you can't set it up yourself, then factor in a couple of hundred pounds for someone else to do it on top of fitting. Otherwise you might get the "sports setting" as one garage described it which is the car as low as possible. Don't get me onto over lowered cars :evil:
And whilst we're at it, don't get me onto over stiff cars either.
Jim
