Upgrade or Sell & Replace

[Braveheart]

Having read many threads on here pertaining to increasing power, I've been reluctant to do so given the amount of money and time required. I am considering either selling this car and buying one that has been upgraded or just bite the bullet and start upgrading this car. I want a car for track and hillclimb use with power output about 300bhp / 270ft/lb.
Each event probable cost between £350 -£400 (fees, fuel, tyres, brakes, lubs, servicable parts and unforeseen issues) so even after the prep cost's it's not a cheap hobby. It is in my opinion though, the best fun you can have "with your clothes on"
I have a prep budget of £6000 and would like your opinions.

The Car as it stands:
It was imported in 1999 and has had 2 previous owners.
I have all the old MOT's and beleive the mileage it correct.
Current MOT (Nissan dealer) & TAX until Feb 2008
The bodywork and underside are in good condition.
Engine & transmission feel strong and quiet.
Full Service Feb 2007 (all lubes changed) new plugs, dizzy cap, rotar arm and leads and DET sensor.
Bought the car in November 2006 for £3800 and I've spent over £1500 to date. Do you think I could get 4k for it?

L reg 1994
41,000 mls
Standard:
Engine
Gearbox
Clutch
ECU
Upgraded:
GAB adj suspension front & rear (on when imported)
Front Strut brace (spats) (on when imported)
15" rims + Toyo R888's (April 2007)
Walbro 255 fuel pump (Feb 2007)
Forge BOV (Feb 2007)
Delimitted + new dials (Feb 2007)
Manual Boost Controller (Dawes device) April 2007 set at 14psi
Parts not yet fitted:

Wilwood 280mm Brake kit
FMIC
Apexi SAFC

If I choose to upgrade then I think I need to do the following but there are a few grey areas that I'm unsure of and maybe some that I have listed that are not nesessary and probably others that I have overlooked. Oh my... it's looking pricey. Think I may have under budgeted!

Car transporter
Spare wheels and tyres
New Suspention (fully adjustable)
Other Suspention work
Full roll cage
Bucket seats + Harnesses
Piggy-back ECU
Electronic Boost Controller
New gauges & sensors
Uprated Clutch
Top mount oil cooler
Uprated radiator
Uprated Induction
Uprated gearbox?
Engine internals? larger injectors?​

It may be cheaper in the long run to upgrade engine now before it gives up, however if I have the cooling and fueling correct it should hold together... hmm.
Please just tell me to sell this car and get another hobby:roll:

 

[Odin]

sell it mate and take up golf.

As for getting 300 bhp then you are pretty much their anyway, Even the standard box should be ok at that kind of level. Just get it rebuilt/cryo treated.

I'd even keep the gabs for now as you will be on a learning curve anyway, Bobby had a cheap trailer for sale, So I can't see you having to shell out that much.

Just a roll cage really for now and some spare wheels and tyres.


Rob

 

[Odin]

Standard injectors got me to over 300 bhp so you don't need them ether, Learn how to do the hill climes first then once you've out grown the 300 bhp then and only then upgrade for more.


Rob

 

[Fazz]

I think that you are closer than you realise.

300bhp in a GTI-R is relatively easy and the main thing is a sounds base which it sounds you have.

Sort out the Uprated Rad, Oil Cooler, Coilovers, few whiteline goodies, boost controller, exhaust, induction, front mount intercooler,fuel pump, clutch and map and thats you nearly there.

You shouldn't need the internals or gearbox all going well. Not until you want more power anyway.

Then trailer, wheels and tyres, roll cage, Bucket seat (why two??) Harness and maintain her and hopefully it'll be job jobbed.

I reckon 6k is prob there give or take. depends how much trailer costs you.

Go for it.

Or sell and give up your hobby!

 

[Odin]

Yes I agree it cooling that you need to upgrade, Get a nice big all metal rad from Absolute rads and a good sized 16/19 row oil cooler.


Rob

 

[Braveheart]

Thanks for your feedback and advice.
I've decided to keep and upgrade my car.

I will strip all the interior out, strengthen the chassie and get an OMP cage welded in and bucket seat + harnesses. The will be stripped out on Tuesday.
I'll relocate battery and anything else that I can move to the rear.
I'll order a new rad and oil cooler and fit all that when I'm doing the FMIC and remove all the AC gubbins. I need to upgrade the clutch as well so I guess I should order a new clutch arm and have it strengthend. I also have some uprated ARB's (group buy) to fit.

 

[pulsarboby]

ive gone along the same lines as your thinking about!

whole car including purchase price, engine build good for 500bhp+
brakes, full cage, lightweight windows, 3071 turbo, suspension, all electrics, and lots of other goodies all to fia and msa regs has not cost me more than 8k and thats including the price of a low loader to take car to events:-o although be it an oldie!

do the work yourself, then you know its done and good for a fair few outings;-)
buy one thats already been done, then expect to maybe have troubles as you dont know what the standard of work is like, or how long car will last before its kaput!

as everyone else has said 300bhp is nowt, so get building mr braveheart:lol:

 

[Braveheart]

Yeah... thanks for the advice Bob. I've been picking brains trying to find the correct direction to go in and you and other members have helped me decide.. or spend my hard earned cash. You are only here once!
I think I understand, your better with the devil you know and I think my car is sound.
I remember your thread after a local track day not so long ago and somebodies oil filter decided to work loose. I would only be happy with that situation if I'd fitted it myself and will now carry a spare.
My car has been under raps in a barn for five years and the chassie looks good.
Having a very adictive personality I never do things in half measures so this new addiction of mine is going to cost. What the heck. Its an enjoyable hobby. I should realy sell my R1 though. 3500 mls from new. I know you have to be a born coward but this bike now gives me the jitters as I still drive it hard and feel that I've had my nine lives on the road.
I will do most of the work myself, tools, equipment and time permiting.
With regards to the power.... I think every additinal BHP costs money and effects reliabilty.

I'll continue to seek advice and **** taking when due....cheers!

 

[Braveheart]

Interior gone.... cage and bucket's tentativly placed... car off to the welders soon.
Still need to order and fit a rad, FMIC, TMOC ... to much to type but thanks for all your help and advice.

Photos here: http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/marionback@btinternet.com/album?.dir=/8b2are2

 

[Braveheart]

As I continue preparing my R for the track, I'm now looking at replacing the stock turbo for a GT2871R as I've read some great reviews about this. I'm not looking for huge power and want something that's not laggy. I'm off to Canada in July and can get a US dealer to mail turbo to my mate's address. Maybe some other goodies as well.

Will this turbo fit the standard GTiR manifold?
http://www.full-race.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=1124

Also, I'm bought a Q45 and 660cc injectors and think that I should do away with my dawes device and manage things properly with electronic boost and fuel. I also feel that I will need to something with regards to my standard ECU but do not know which route to go. ie... chip, piggyback / e-manager or try to get the standard mapped for my mods.

I have the following to fit:
Q45 MAF
660cc injectors
RPS Max street clutch + RPS flywheels (new clutch fork and boot)
FMIC
Uprated rad + oil cooler
Apexi SAFC

Your advice would be much welcomed

 

[campbellju]

I think every additinal BHP costs money and effects reliabilty.

:doh:

What's that saying about power corrupting :lol::lol:

Decide on your target power level and fit the right turbo. If you want 340-380, fit a 2871, outside of that there are better turbos.

regarding fuel control, fit the one the person doing the mapping prefers. Before anything else, fit yourself an AEM WB lambda with Gauge so you now how your car is running now and then you can see what the tuner does to your car. It is an excellent diagnosis tool too.

 

[Braveheart]

Thanks for the feedback!
I'm off to Canada for a week in July and trying to put a shopping list of goodies together to take advantage of the exchange rate and have the stuff mailed from the US to Canada.
I've had a good look on the WWW and found many air/fuel gauges etc.
I have not found or chosen a mapper in Scotland yet. ( are there any???) so I still do not know which piggy back / ECU to go for.
Please advice and feel free to add to my shopping list. You never know, I may have a few spare socks for some extra goodies for you guys.

Is this gauge ok and what do you think of the boost controller / gauge?
Air / Fuel http://www.nipponpower.com/product.phtml?p=432
Boost controller & Gauge http://www.nipponpower.com/product.phtml?p=967

 

[Keira]

the answer to your prayers is on mtv...

westwood could pimp yo ride 4 sure :lol: wouldn't even cost you anything

 

[Braveheart]

I like that program and see they now have a UK version.
I have as much change of them pinping me as I have winning the lottery and if they did, I'd like them to start with my C reg Hilux which now has a couple of trees growing through the flat-bed.

 

[dazzamac]

personaly mate, i'd go for maybe a profec b boost controller or something
thats what im savin the penny's for
let me know how u get on, pretty interested in this seen as i'm from just outside glasgow and i'm goin to be prepairing mine for crail sprints a think

cheers

 

[Braveheart]

Thanks for the feedback Dazz. Good luck with your prep and I hope we meet up some time. I'm Glasgow born and bred.
Got my clutch fitted yesterday and my turbo arrived. GT2871R & 660 injectors.
I'll fit everything at the same time. Still waiting on turbo elbow/front pipe, rad and oil cooler and my management stuff.
Need to try and get my brake kit on now for Knockhill, Sunday 17th.

Later!

 

[Braveheart]

Having read many threads on here pertaining to increasing power, I've been reluctant to do so given the amount of money and time required. I am considering either selling this car and buying one that has been upgraded or just bite the bullet and start upgrading this car. I want a car for track and hillclimb use with power output about 300bhp / 270ft/lb.
Each event probable cost between £350 -£400 (fees, fuel, tyres, brakes, lubs, servicable parts and unforeseen issues) so even after the prep cost's it's not a cheap hobby. It is in my opinion though, the best fun you can have "with your clothes on"
I have a prep budget of £6000 and would like your opinions.

The Car as it stands:
It was imported in 1999 and has had 2 previous owners.
I have all the old MOT's and beleive the mileage it correct.
Current MOT (Nissan dealer) & TAX until Feb 2008
The bodywork and underside are in good condition.
Engine & transmission feel strong and quiet.
Full Service Feb 2007 (all lubes changed) new plugs, dizzy cap, rotar arm and leads and DET sensor.
Bought the car in November 2006 for £3800 and I've spent over £1500 to date. Do you think I could get 4k for it?

L reg 1994
41,000 mls
Standard:
Engine
Gearbox
Clutch
ECU
Upgraded:
GAB adj suspension front & rear (on when imported)
Front Strut brace (spats) (on when imported)
15" rims + Toyo R888's (April 2007)
Walbro 255 fuel pump (Feb 2007)
Forge BOV (Feb 2007)
Delimitted + new dials (Feb 2007)
Manual Boost Controller (Dawes device) April 2007 set at 14psi
Parts not yet fitted:

Wilwood 280mm Brake kit
FMIC
Apexi SAFC​

If I choose to upgrade then I think I need to do the following but there are a few grey areas that I'm unsure of and maybe some that I have listed that are not nesessary and probably others that I have overlooked. Oh my... it's looking pricey. Think I may have under budgeted!​

Car transporter
Spare wheels and tyres
New Suspention (fully adjustable)
Other Suspention work
Full roll cage
Bucket seats + Harnesses
Piggy-back ECU
Electronic Boost Controller
New gauges & sensors
Uprated Clutch
Top mount oil cooler
Uprated radiator
Uprated Induction
Uprated gearbox?
Engine internals? larger injectors?​

It may be cheaper in the long run to upgrade engine now before it gives up, however if I have the cooling and fueling correct it should hold together... hmm.
Please just tell me to sell this car and get another hobby:roll:

Thanks for your feedback and advice so far. Appreciated and yes I was listening...;-)
Here's an update as I'm just about to start the work.

Car transporter: Have one now thanks to Pulsarbob.
Spare wheels and tyres: 2 sets of 15". Team Dynamice Pro race 1.2 and Buddy Club.
New Suspension (fully adjustable): Will stick with the GAB for now.
Other Suspension work: Whiteline ARB front & rear. Camber adjustment bolts F & R. Front and rear strut braces.
Full roll cage: OMP half cage at the moment. I will extend it to the front (6 point cage)
Bucket seats + Harnesses: OMP track seat and harnesses.
Piggy-back ECU: E-manage Ultimate with pressure sensor + harnesses.
Electronic Boost Controller: PRofec B
New gauges & sensors: Manual Oil temp, Oil Pressure, Water temp, A/F and boost gauge.
Uprated Clutch: RPS Max Street.
Top mount oil cooler: Still need to get 19 row front mount with therm' shoe & hoses.
FMIC: Hybrid.
Uprated radiator: Koyo Alloy rad 50mm thick.
Uprated Induction: Z32 and Apexi 80mm filter.
Uprated gearbox? On my wish list but not yet.
Engine internals? larger injectors?: Blitz 660
Turbo: GT2871R with braided oil and water hoses.
Exhaust: 3" turbo elbow and down pipe (GRP buy) onto goose 2.75". Plan to replace goose with custom 3" and a custom manifold would be nice but not necessary.

I have a collection of sundry parts to aid reliability, cooling and mount various gauges and other stuff still to get.

Need a wee bit of help and have a few questions for now and probably quite a few more as I do the work.

1. When I fit the Koya rad, should I fit a lower tempreture thermostat or just remove it completely.
2. Need to fit a few bosses for the manual gauges.
a. Water temp.. Inline top hose adaptor with boss. OK?
http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/COOLING-Hose-Adaptor/c20_312/index.html
b. Oil Temp: I have a Greddy oil filter sensor attachment but as I still need to fit oil cooler, can you get an oil cooler filter attachment that will accommodate both oil feed / return and a temp sensor?
c. Manual Oil pressure gauge: any suggestions?
3. Were on the GRP buy turbo elbow and exhaust should I weld the boss for the A/F sensor?
4. Where should I get my oil cooler from?

Cheers,
Scott.

P.S. All comments (good, bad or completely stupid) and feedback welcomed. :doh: :shock: ;-)

 

[vss irvine]

1.lower temp stat will def help. get it from here www.rhdjapan.com nismo item
2.a- thats fine, or tap and drill the housing (top rad hose)
b. think automotive do these (makers of mocal)
c. racetech unit from rally design
3. dont know as havent seen one
4 think automotive direct 02085681172

 

[MarkTurbo]

I want a car for track and hillclimb use with power output about 300bhp / 270ft/lb.

If I choose to upgrade then I think I need to do the following but there are a few grey areas that I'm unsure of and maybe some that I have listed that are not nesessary and probably others that I have overlooked. Oh my... it's looking pricey. Think I may have under budgeted!

Car transporter
Spare wheels and tyres
New Suspention (fully adjustable)
Other Suspention work
Full roll cage
Bucket seats + Harnesses
Piggy-back ECU
Electronic Boost Controller
New gauges & sensors
Uprated Clutch
Top mount oil cooler
Uprated radiator
Uprated Induction
Uprated gearbox?
Engine internals? larger injectors?[/LEFT]
It may be cheaper in the long run to upgrade engine now before it gives up, however if I have the cooling and fueling correct it should hold together... hmm.
Please just tell me to sell this car and get another hobby:roll:

Considering your first comment that list is just :shock: :shock: :shock:


If you only want about 300bhp you wouldnt need hardly anything off that fooking great big list :lol: For trackdays and hillclimbing i'd say get an uprated clutch and oil cooler and forget the rest of it ;-)

 

[Braveheart]

Considering your first comment that list is just :shock: :shock: :shock:


If you only want about 300bhp you wouldnt need hardly anything off that fooking great big list :lol: For trackdays and hillclimbing i'd say get an uprated clutch and oil cooler and forget the rest of it ;-)

Vss.... thanks for the information, very helpful...

Mark thanks for your advice and feedback :doh: :lol: .
Maybe I should have started a new thread "track car" but I wanted to keep the history of progress alive. Now I understand 300bhp can be acheived with little effort but I have also reolised that if the car is to work well as a track car I needed to do it properly. This means safety, reliability and performance.
I agree, with my max street clutch, rad, oil cooler and dawes device fitted, I could just blat around the track which I have done but I'm now looking for longevaty and competitive performance. ;-)
It's my addictive personality and competative nature along with advice from GTIROC members that has kept me moving forward to make this car a good one.
Don't want to give the GTiR a bad name now do we.... :lol: :lol: :lol: