Major_Sarcasm
Member
Blah blah.
I spoke to Ross this morning on MSN. The whole car's for sale if anyone's interested.
I spoke to Ross this morning on MSN. The whole car's for sale if anyone's interested.
Piper 278 cam opinions
I have been wanting to get a set of these for awhile now and finally have the setup and money for them. So yes, before the hazing I do have the head work to match the profile of the cams and take advantage of them. My question is for those of you that have a set of the 278s, what do you think?
Also, for the ones out there that have the 260s, what about those? How did they treat you?
Thanks!
I have been wanting to get a set of these for awhile now and finally have the setup and money for them. So yes, before the hazing I do have the head work to match the profile of the cams and take advantage of them. My question is for those of you that have a set of the 278s, what do you think?
Also, for the ones out there that have the 260s, what about those? How did they treat you?
Thanks!
P
pulsarboby
Guest
cams are very good, much more torquey than hks 264s from 4k upwards, but i cant remember now whether mine were 272s or 278s i retained the oe valve springs, just replaced them for new ones and never had a prob with valve bounce or anything like that. the car is still making power at 6500rpm which is very good
yep i cant fault them tbh
yep i cant fault them tbh
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noriek2003
New Member
The choice of cam all comes down to where you want to make power and with us being forced induction what turbo you are going to use. If running bigger turbos than t2 flanged direct bolt ons, the longer duration cams would come into thier own. The longer duration cam is going to shift your powerband to the right, which is why bob is saying it makes more torque from 4k upwards (which the graph shows it doing) However, its not making more torque, its making it later due to the shift in the rpm rev range of the powerband due mainly to the cam choice. Shorter duration cams are ulitmately going to restrict the power you can make on a bigger turbo, but, will give you peak torque earlier, robs car was a good example of this, he was running relatively short duration cams, less than 264's but was getting 442lbft by 5200rpm and made over 500bhp at just 6661rpm, so was nicely within the standard rev range. He would've made more power with the 3076 with longer duration cams but would've lost the almost vertical climb of torque and had to increase the rpm range, putting more stress on the engines components. You can see on the graph that on the set up he had it wasn't going to do much more powerwise as its stopped climbing, but for what he wanted (500bhp and early peak torque) it was pretty much spot on, especially for a road car, shame he's such a faggot and sold it..lol.
comparing 2 graphs of similar specs, bobs and dooies : (not a true comparisson as the set ups are slightly different (same turbo, dooie had the smaller turbine housing) and done on different dynos, slightly higher rpm limit on bobs, but its as good as we will get..lol
bobs piper 278's 1.4bar
max torque 351lbft at 5600rpm
dooies old graph : Hks 264's 1.4bar
372.5lbft 4627rpm.
dooies graph looks like the fooking alps due to wheelspin and, what looks like slightly erratic boost control..lol.and it drops off pretty sharpish due to the small back housing, if it had the same rear end as bobs the graph would look alot better tbh higher up the revs and would probably only lose about 300rpm of spool, but it makes its peak torque earlier due to the 264's coming on cam earlier, theres a 1000rpm gain on dooies car hitting peak torque.
dooies horsepower graph :
as you can see it makes slightly less peak bhp than bobs at the same boost, again this is down to the smaller back housing and having less duration on the cams and losing 300rpm of revs to bobs graph, if you look at bobs graph at 6900rpm which is where stus made its peak bhp theres only about 9bhp in it so no big deal. The big difference is how quick the torque drops on dooies car.
What does this mean in the real world: bob has to rev his car higher than dooie, for what on the surface appears to be little performance gain. To be at peak torque bob needs to keep his revs up at 5600rpm and over so has to ring the cars neck the whole time. On a twisty, tight road, small tight circuit, dooies would probably be quicker and easier to drive, however (and this is why i said on the surface there appears to be little gain) once things opened up, longer bends, straights bobs car would be quicker. On a drag strip, bobs would be quicker.
to decide what cams you want, you need to decide on how you want the car to respond. Make the wrong choice and you may end up with a car you dont like driving.
the simplest way to look at it all, and without needing to digest anything that requires more than a seconds thought is that the effect of increasing duration is to move the power range to higher RPM.
you only then need to ask yourself why do i want to do that ?
comparing 2 graphs of similar specs, bobs and dooies : (not a true comparisson as the set ups are slightly different (same turbo, dooie had the smaller turbine housing) and done on different dynos, slightly higher rpm limit on bobs, but its as good as we will get..lol
bobs piper 278's 1.4bar
max torque 351lbft at 5600rpm
dooies old graph : Hks 264's 1.4bar
372.5lbft 4627rpm.
dooies graph looks like the fooking alps due to wheelspin and, what looks like slightly erratic boost control..lol.and it drops off pretty sharpish due to the small back housing, if it had the same rear end as bobs the graph would look alot better tbh higher up the revs and would probably only lose about 300rpm of spool, but it makes its peak torque earlier due to the 264's coming on cam earlier, theres a 1000rpm gain on dooies car hitting peak torque.
dooies horsepower graph :
as you can see it makes slightly less peak bhp than bobs at the same boost, again this is down to the smaller back housing and having less duration on the cams and losing 300rpm of revs to bobs graph, if you look at bobs graph at 6900rpm which is where stus made its peak bhp theres only about 9bhp in it so no big deal. The big difference is how quick the torque drops on dooies car.
What does this mean in the real world: bob has to rev his car higher than dooie, for what on the surface appears to be little performance gain. To be at peak torque bob needs to keep his revs up at 5600rpm and over so has to ring the cars neck the whole time. On a twisty, tight road, small tight circuit, dooies would probably be quicker and easier to drive, however (and this is why i said on the surface there appears to be little gain) once things opened up, longer bends, straights bobs car would be quicker. On a drag strip, bobs would be quicker.
to decide what cams you want, you need to decide on how you want the car to respond. Make the wrong choice and you may end up with a car you dont like driving.
the simplest way to look at it all, and without needing to digest anything that requires more than a seconds thought is that the effect of increasing duration is to move the power range to higher RPM.
you only then need to ask yourself why do i want to do that ?
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pulsarboby
Guest
i have to say what kieron has wrote above is true and can see what he means by shorter duration cams and the fact that it does effect the lower down grunt of the engine. couple that up to a low comp engine with 2mm h/g and youve created a bit of a monster at high rpm but down low is not so good.
in some respects i would have been better to have gone for shorter duration as my cars mainly used on twisty circuits where i would rather have had peak power lower down the range and its true that i have to be right up in the rev band to keep the car on song so to speak.
so as said it depends really whether you want a drag monster with power further up the rev range or something that spools quickly lower down, but is not as much of a kick in the pants as the first option.
i now wish i had gone for shorter duration cams, but you live and learn i suppose
in some respects i would have been better to have gone for shorter duration as my cars mainly used on twisty circuits where i would rather have had peak power lower down the range and its true that i have to be right up in the rev band to keep the car on song so to speak.
so as said it depends really whether you want a drag monster with power further up the rev range or something that spools quickly lower down, but is not as much of a kick in the pants as the first option.
i now wish i had gone for shorter duration cams, but you live and learn i suppose
noriek2003
New Member
just stick a bigger turbo on it, whack the boost up and make a real screamer of it :lol:pulsarboby said:
Nice information there, makes good reading. :thumb:
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pulsarboby
Guest
yep it is good info, it just goes to show that it pays to do your homework before doing a big build on engine!
something i never did first time round, but you dont know till you try.
it also makes you think more about what you actually need the car for before going out and buying bundles of stuff thats not really necessary at all, another lesson ive learned along the way lol
something i never did first time round, but you dont know till you try.
it also makes you think more about what you actually need the car for before going out and buying bundles of stuff thats not really necessary at all, another lesson ive learned along the way lol
Rishi
Still waiting on some shims!
You're on 270deg Cams.. ;-)
All super good info and thank you very much! I knew pretty much that getting the 278s would place the band up high with the gt3076r I'll be pairing it up with turbo wise and that’s what I wanted. Then you had to go and make all these pretty grafts and detailed write-ups that almost make me feel bad for not going with the lower-end power for fun more purposeful use other then the strip :-D.
I still might think it over between the two, but it seems everyone is/was happy with their Piper cams, and that’s what I mainly wanted to know. Now its just to decide which route of pleasure...
Thanks guys!
I still might think it over between the two, but it seems everyone is/was happy with their Piper cams, and that’s what I mainly wanted to know. Now its just to decide which route of pleasure...
Thanks guys!
noriek2003
New Member
what do you want to do with the car ?
if you are going to go with a 264ish duration go with these
http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/customer_part_detail.asp?PartID=6
people in the states i talk to love them on the gtir
if you are going to go with a 264ish duration go with these
http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/customer_part_detail.asp?PartID=6
people in the states i talk to love them on the gtir
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I've looked at those and they are good, but I think I want something if just a little more duration. Does Piper still make 270s? I've read about them and them would seem about right for what I want but can not find them for sale anywhere for the life of me.
Oh, and people in the States rav about the JWT ones so much also because they think it's the only cams made for the R because they never look outside the US. So when it's the only thing to compare to stock the opinion gets limited.
Oh, and people in the States rav about the JWT ones so much also because they think it's the only cams made for the R because they never look outside the US. So when it's the only thing to compare to stock the opinion gets limited.
noriek2003
New Member
kelford have it all covered off the shelfTrip said:
http://www.camshaftshop.com/camshafts/view/35/nissan-camshaft/
kevin at kelford will also design a one off grind to suit your cars needs if he doesn't think what they offer will do the job that you require from them
kelford get
from me.noriek2003
New Member
a guy on the sr forum did dyno tests years ago and the s3m's did really well against the hks 264's, thats probably why people rave about them.zer099 said:
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pulsarboby
Guest
yeah what kieron has said regarding the smaller profile cams being at their peak earlier is justified for all to see.
where as mines still making power at 7200 the others are past there peak then.
if i had upped the boost i reckon the rev limit would need to have been raised to around 8.5k to have made the best of the power available.
but then your heading into dangerous territory and run the risk of throwing rockers etc, so much better with the power being brought in earlier really (i would say definately for a road car or track car anyways)
max torque 351lbft at 5600rpm
