Project Shit Box (2021)

fubar andy

Moderator & N/W Rep
Staff member
I was going to say why not get your knackered block linered, the only problem with that is you need to find somebody that's done a few successfully which is the hard bit.
It is an option I've been looking at however, I can't seem to find anybody who's willing to take on the job or has any good reputation.

I know Stumo has his done by AGRA, but they kept moving/slipping round.
I also spoke to the guy rebuilding my engine and he was very reluctant about having them resleeved too!
 

fubar andy

Moderator & N/W Rep
Staff member
This now a common occurance,bought few parts that were classed as mint only to be fit for the bin....With bob now closing up will be even more difficult

block is still usable, fit new darton sleeves can go upto 90mm or


You can try sourceing a s20vet block almost identical apart from few differences.

Zia
This is definitely going to be a problem going forward for these cars. The whole parts situation is looking quite challenging.

I might look at 90mm sleeves, but I'm trying to be mindful of the costs rebuilding the engine.

Pobody also recommended a VET block/head option.

I'm not too sure how difficult they are to combine together? I don't really have much experience on this kind of setup or what's involved?
 

fubar andy

Moderator & N/W Rep
Staff member
is importing one an option?
It is an option I'm considering but I could have the same option I've had just recently with ordering parts and they turn up with similar damage to my own engine and I'm back to square one...
 

Cathode

Active Member
Wow, I'll consider myself lucky when it comes to genuine Nissan parts for my rebuild in the last couple of years or so. Abbey Motorsport in Oxsted sourced quite a few genuine Nissan Pulsar parts for me. Whether that's the case now I couldn't say but NIssan UK were just hopeless. The only thing they could get me was something like a starter motor IIRC. I was lucky enough that I didn't need to find a block, head or gear-box. Anyone who's read my thread about the prop-shaft will know that took an age to get sorted.

What's more frustrating that I've learnt from this forum is there are quite a few variants of the SR20 but not much of it is cross compatable which would make life a lot easier in this context. Yet here we are. A shame.

Keep plugging away. I'm sure with a little will power and a lot of money you can get it revving and rolling again.
 

Eng1

Member
If you wish to get the block linered I would give FJ Payne a call 01865 882299 , located in Witney , Nr Oxford .
They are old school and have always done excellent work for me , I dont know what their pricing is nowadays , its been many years since I’ve used them , but top notch work and used to old / rare engines .
 

fubar andy

Moderator & N/W Rep
Staff member
If you wish to get the block linered I would give FJ Payne a call 01865 882299 , located in Witney , Nr Oxford .
They are old school and have always done excellent work for me , I dont know what their pricing is nowadays , its been many years since I’ve used them , but top notch work and used to old / rare engines .
I gave them a ring and they seem happy to do the work which makes a change.

Got a rough idea of price too and not as bad as I was thinking.

See how I get on getting a new block, but I think that a new liners might be a good shout and saves me messing about sellers online
 

Eng1

Member
It’s been a while since I’ve used them but they used to do a Fair bit of motorsports work , F1 etc is a
Big thing in the area , their measuring facility was a sight to behold : down to microns and 3D imaging (this was way before it was popular)
Standard was top notch , how things have changed over the decades ,I don’t know ,people move on /retire .
If you need cylinder head work , I know a guy (again Oxford area) who is fabulous.old school and always gets the best results .
He must be close to retirement now , it’s shame his knowledge will retire with him ( no apprentice ever stayed long as it’s dirty ,hard and precise work)
It’s the motorsport industry keeps these people going , but in a throwaway world ,skills are fast disappearing
 

fubar andy

Moderator & N/W Rep
Staff member
He must be close to retirement now , it’s shame his knowledge will retire with him ( no apprentice ever stayed long as it’s dirty ,hard and precise work)
It’s the motorsport industry keeps these people going , but in a throwaway world ,skills are fast disappearing
I've seen this in an engineering shop near where I used to live.

He retired as he was getting on, no-one learned the skills and the outcry and demand for him to comeback was huge so he started back up and now has 2 apprentices on board!
 

zia

Active Member
I hope they are really well versed in installing liners on Sr20det,becuase if they get it wrong could cause huge issues.

Zia
 

fubar andy

Moderator & N/W Rep
Staff member
I hope they are really well versed in installing liners on Sr20det,becuase if they get it wrong could cause huge issues.

Zia
That's my biggest issue!

He's done them before, but its been a long time since he's had a GTiR in the shop he said!

Out of interest, is big power an issue for our engines if they are re-lined? Or is it a case if they are fitted correctly then its a non issue regardless of power?

I'm not looking to run high numbers anyways, probably less than 400bhp
 

Eng1

Member
Payne’s are old school , understate and overdeliver, they have decades of machine work behind them ,I doubt they would have any issue with a reline ,having done 1000,s .
when increasing power ,it’s always the extra
Heat that is produced that is the issue , the smaller the engine , the less mass there is to dissipate the heat , oil films , clearances , hot spots , cracking and so on now become the problems
The quality and design of the original parts has a huge impact here , some engines by design can cope with large power increases and size matters .
A 4 cylinder, 2 litre making 400 hp has 100hp of heat per cylinder , A six cylinder 3 litre making 400 hp has 66 hp per cylinder .
The heat path is the same , via spark plug threads or valve seats ,valves ,guides to head and on to the coolant /oil
Or via piston , to rings to block and water/oil , aluminium does not like cyclic heating and cooling ,it cracks and ages .the larger the part the more heat tolerant or better it dissipates .
Of course all the tuning companies will promise to “love you long time “ but defying physics,expect a
Quickie....lol
The quickie can still be great fun ...
 

zia

Active Member
Done properly you should have 0 issues, there are sr20det doing over 900bhp with darton sleeves.


Zia
 

Eng1

Member
Surely it would make sense to give the complete short block to Payne , and have them build it .
They can clean and check the rotating assy , do bearings , clearances , check rods etc
They can also in house repair or advise if you want to up boost or power on things like ring clearances and design or piston oil squirter improvements ,piston strength etc
Sure it will cost more but whichever way you go it’s not cheap to build an engine properly , and any future owner never wants to pay for what you did .
I am an expert on losing money on cars ..
 

MarkTurbo

Well-Known Member
That's my biggest issue!

He's done them before, but its been a long time since he's had a GTiR in the shop he said!

Out of interest, is big power an issue for our engines if they are re-lined? Or is it a case if they are fitted correctly then its a non issue regardless of power?

I'm not looking to run high numbers anyways, probably less than 400bhp
I think the main problem with doing it is liners moving and water seeping into the sump around the bottom of the liner, I don't think it's necessarily power related but more a case of done right they work but if not you'll get problems regardless of bhp.

I'm still not 100% convinced my engine dosen't lose a tiny bit of coolant somewhere which is why I was asking what he quoted you. Was the price including the liners?

If you go for it might be worth having the discussion about what he's prepared to do if there are any issues beforehand.
 

Eng1

Member
I'm wondering if cyro treating the head and block might be worth a punt?

Try to keep things strong and increase general longevity?
The aluminium is already 30 years old and been through 1000s of heat cycles , so it is already age hardened ( the same process also can cause cracks ) longevity is done by controlling thermal peaks using oil /water/air systems protecting the aluminium from stress at hot spots .
Just having the engine block and head ,tank cleaned helps loads as the oil ways and waterways are now free from decades of build up in them
 

fubar andy

Moderator & N/W Rep
Staff member
Was the price including the liners?
Yes, just the liners and skimmed the block.

I might have another chat with him soon to see what he says and whether he wants to take on the whole build.

I was thinking the other day, why have half of it done and then have someone else put the rest of it back together!

The only issue for me either collecting it or have the parts shipped over to him! o_O
 

fubar andy

Moderator & N/W Rep
Staff member
Update:

Booking the block in for liners!

Will need to order pistons, work should start around Aug!
 
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