New build.

[red reading]

Russ, I am not revving the car any higher than needed so if the power starts to tail off at 7800rpm the rev limit will be 8000rpm, the aim is a wider spread of power and a bit more of it, liners are custom ductile iron not nicasil as I am not stressed over any heat transfer issues ( I know why your saying about them as they are obviously a better option) or running the power to warrant them, I want to basically have a more efficient engine to run the same sort of power band out of the possible bigger turbo, revs are not a concern as the gearing my car runs is far too high and would end up with some thing difficult to drive, I want torque and drivability, I am still dubious over rod lenth and angle as well as piston dwell time being changed , most engines like these I have seen are drag engines as well so longevity is not something known about so it's just a learning curve and an interest I have after the debates we have had before about them.


as for the forum stuff, it's all bollox he says she says shit and nothing worth writing about hence why I have had some threads pulled as tbh I am not wasting my breath any more.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Good stuff mate, i may have missed it, but what sort of turbo are you thinking of, larger open scroll or divided, i assume something bigger than what you have already, a big divided efr sounds ideal for it ? Hope you post up info on the build as you go, don't need a detailed spec etc, but would be good to see how you get on with it, you have all the right bits on the car already, box, diffs etc so realistically you're in a good position to get it done relatively quickly/cheaply.

 

[red reading]

I will start with my existing turbo and manifold set up with a larger wastegate and exhaust housing and go from there, a certain clever turbo fella has given me a few other options and some ideas that I had forgotton about to increase efficiency so larger single scroll but same size compressor for the moment,the borg warner is a good turbo but so bloody big physically and still has reliability issues.....

will see on posting pics as that is normally the last thing on my mind when building, but I will post specs as or if it works well for others, I have a few small but beneficial handing things I want to try too so details on that will be about soon...I have been far to quiet for too long so I will be posting more from now on

 

[Fast Guy]

Have you looked into twin scroll? I thought that was the way to go?

 

[red reading]

I have but I will have to construct a new manifold and twin wastegates, that can only be done in time which is quite sparse for me at times, it depends on how well a single scroll works too to start with.

 

[campbellju]

I cleaned up the thread as it's going somewhere again

 

[campbellju]

Have the Borg turbos been used much on SR20's yet? I assume GTX's are still the only option from a GT

 

[Empty Pockets]

Although there's so many variables in this reference, my bro has a 4g63 based 2.2 long rod running a 35hta, made 630/540 at a smidge under 2.1bar, currently running 2.3bar with map tweeks, the same builder recently did a 4g64 based 2.2 running a efr9180 which made 806/667 at 2.5bar, there was basically no difference in spool on the graphs and the hta dropped off first.. My bro drove the efr car for one of the mapping sessions, 1.4bar iirc, and said it was so much nicer to drive than his... In hindsight he wished he'd gone efr but at the time he bought his kit the efr was a bit of an unknown. Now although the two engines are different spec, deck height, stroke and rod length, the builder and mapper were the same so build quality and mapping ethos will be comparable, and with the flow rate differences of 75lb compared to 91lb iirc, the max power output and graph showed that the efr do seem to be a bit special compared to the usual stuff, my bro's been in a few efr'd evo's now and prefers the drivability/response of the divided efr's.

 

[red reading]

Not seen many of the b/w efr turbos used full stop in the uk yet, I did hear a whisper that there was production issues hence the long wait for them and also packaging issues fitting them....I.e they won't fit a r35 gtr easily in stock position and they run recored turbos in stock frame to achive over 1000hp with Garrett's, there is alternative to the gtx with the b/w s300 and also the prescison turbos (re badged modded Garrett's basically) I use a owen billet wheel which is another variation which gives me upto 600ishhp on a spool comparable to a 3071 and very good transient response (which is more important to me)

 

[Empty Pockets]

I was going to go efr before i decided to get rid, but unfortunately the divided efr's are all t4 framed and my mani's a t3..... bummer.... Doesn't 'MARKnutinacupTURBO' have an efr on a 2,4, don't know if it's open scroll or divided though ?

 

[red reading]

Although there's so many variables in this reference, my bro has a 4g63 based 2.2 long rod running a 35hta, made 630/540 at a smidge under 2.1bar, currently running 2.3bar with map tweeks, the same builder recently did a 4g64 based 2.2 running a efr9180 which made 806/667 at 2.5bar, there was basically no difference in spool on the graphs and the hta dropped off first.. My bro drove the efr car for one of the mapping sessions, 1.4bar iirc, and said it was so much nicer to drive than his... In hindsight he wished he'd gone efr but at the time he bought his kit the efr was a bit of an unknown. Now although the two engines are different spec, deck height, stroke and rod length, the builder and mapper were the same so build quality and mapping ethos will be comparable, and with the flow rate differences of 75lb compared to 91lb iirc, the max power output and graph showed that the efr do seem to be a bit special compared to the usual stuff, my bro's been in a few efr'd evo's now and prefers the drivability/response of the divided efr's.

Now that is interesting, and not a bad comparisons between viehcles....so your brothers is a single scroll 35hta?

 

[red reading]

I was going to go efr before i decided to get rid, but unfortunately the divided efr's are all t4 framed and my mani's a t3..... bummer.... Doesn't 'MARKnutinacupTURBO' have an efr on a 2,4, don't know if it's open scroll or divided though ?

That is the way mark is going, but I think the water and webbed fingers have caused him build issues in Somerset ...lol

 

[Empty Pockets]

Not seen many of the b/w efr turbos used full stop in the uk yet, I did hear a whisper that there was production issues hence the long wait for them and also packaging issues fitting them....I.e they won't fit a r35 gtr easily in stock position and they run recored turbos in stock frame to achive over 1000hp with Garrett's, there is alternative to the gtx with the b/w s300 and also the prescison turbos (re badged modded Garrett's basically) I use a owen billet wheel which is another variation which gives me upto 600ishhp on a spool comparable to a 3071 and very good transient response (which is more important to me)

Might be worth a pop over to Madevelopments in Marlow Dan, you'd probably get a run out in a few efr'd cars, Marks a nice bloke. There were a few problems with efr's on release but not heard of anything lately, on the other hand, quite a few of the Garrett derived FP hta's have been failing, mainly due to bolts backing out on the tial v-band housings (my bro's was replaced under warranty), Owens now service/build the FP hta range, including race spec (inconel bolts, cage, sheild) varients so i'd guess you essentially have a race spec 3076hta, same wheel design and core, there's been a few people claiming they've got 600bhp from them but they all seem to come from the same tuner, general consensus is it's a 550'ish turbo with good spool, you may well hit 600 at 2.5bar though, who knows. certainly woth maxing it out as you already have it

 

[Empty Pockets]

Now that is interesting, and not a bad comparisons between viehcles....so your brothers is a single scroll 35hta?

Yes mate, single scroll 35hta, .82 tial v-band exhaust housing, v-band manifold and 44mm gate.

 

[Empty Pockets]

That is the way mark is going, but I think the water and webbed fingers have caused him build issues in Somerset ...lol

Lol, the webbed fingers are nothing to do with water, it's just gods way of trying to stop them fiddling with their siblings, highly un-efficient though i suspect.......

 

[red reading]

I know mark, and Danny where he dyno the cars just never get time to see anyone...marks workshop used to be half a mile from my house. yeah fp hta with every option from Owens on mine due to the mentioned failures you have said we had 520 at 1.7 bar as an average (exhaust restriction problems ) runs at a constant of 2 bar and has maxed the injectors after sorting the exhaust issues out so it's circa 540 , now have larger injectors so can go further but I think realistically 570 on this engine at a push with this exhaust housing.....all academic really as it's just dyno figures...interested in efr's if they have sorted the issues

 

[red reading]

Lol, the webbed fingers are nothing to do with water, it's just gods way of trying to stop them fiddling with their siblings, highly un-efficient though i suspect.......

Lol, nope it did not work there is more of them year on year.

 

[MarkTurbo]

Bloody pisstakers :lol:

That is the way mark is going, but I think the water and webbed fingers have caused him build issues in Somerset ...lol

The plan is still to make a new manifold and stick a T4 twinscroll EFR 7670 on my 2.3 stroker, just got a couple issues to sort out first. The main one is spending more time messing about on things with 2 wheels rather than 4!

https://www.rootsandrain.com/photos/588111

 

[Empty Pockets]

I know mark, and Danny where he dyno the cars just never get time to see anyone...marks workshop used to be half a mile from my house. yeah fp hta with every option from Owens on mine due to the mentioned failures you have said we had 520 at 1.7 bar as an average (exhaust restriction problems ) runs at a constant of 2 bar and has maxed the injectors after sorting the exhaust issues out so it's circa 540 , now have larger injectors so can go further but I think realistically 570 on this engine at a push with this exhaust housing.....all academic really as it's just dyno figures...interested in efr's if they have sorted the issues

Next time you get a spare minute you should give him a shout, he's the main man in the UK with the efr's at the mo so worth a chat, and even better if you know him. I think your results are mightily impressive with that turbo mate, 540 @ 2bar on a 2ltr sr20 is damn good imo, up there with the 4g63 motors which i tend to find on paper respond a lot better than sr20's, what's the spread of power like, the 4g63's torque seems to plateau before dropping, whereas most tuned sr20's i've seen the torque curve looks like a volcano, rising to a peak and then dropping straight off instantly, wondered if it's a horrible sr2o trait, or just bad tuning/building ?

 

[Empty Pockets]

Bloody pisstakers :lol: The plan is still to make a new manifold and stick a T4 twinscroll EFR 7670 on my 2.3 stroker, just got a couple issues to sort out first. The main one is spending more time messing about on things with 2 wheels rather than 4! https://www.rootsandrain.com/photos/588111

Two wheels and no motor.... Might aswell put a little basket and bell on it so we really can have a laugh... I assume you're going to make the manifold yourself, i'm sure i saw you knock something else quite fancy up so guessing so ? Another interesting build to me, as i haven't seen/heard of a running twinscroll R, lose the lycra and get it finished .....