Garret GT3076R - experienced opinions? - Vs 3071?

[Trip]

no one took of my run but here are some footage of the other competitors..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeIK2LND5mo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzT8S3CnMpI

 

[Odin]

it was my first race and 0 to no experience driving a pulsar.

Just don't lift right off the throttle mid bend :doh: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: .






Rob

 

[Fazz]

Personally, I'm still not sold on the 3071 Vs 3076 situ.

Its unfortunate there's no real direct experience ont he GTI-R from owners on here, so hard to compare the lag differences.

Slight advatnage of running a little less boost on the bigger 3076,
slight disadvantage of more lag

Advantage of 3071 being its proven and low lag and tested

Realistically, my needs are 400bhp for the immediate future, then maybe more depending on the box and if quaiffe is ordered. But if I do the box in then it will be more power hopefully. But surely 450-470 would be enough.

I'm sellin myself on the 3071 now... just want to know what the lag difference is. surely not more than a couple hundred rpm as its based on same design...

more research required...


Either way, the 3071 is prob the proven and best turbo for 400-450bhp with low lag on GTI-R's.

 

[Odin]

On my JGY BB 37R turbo I got 399.7 bhp and 345 ft lbs at 1.4 bar, I think the 3071R would need to run about 1.6 bar to match that but spools a lot faster, I also think that having to run a little more boost isn't a bad thing because I'm sure the 3071R is designed to run at about 1.8 bar, which should see you at 450+ bhp and 400 ft lbs 8) .

I think with the bigger 3076R would be getting a fair bit more lag and unless you want silly 500bhp+ power then its not worth the hassle.




Rob

 

[Trip]

How much would anti-lag help in regards to both turbo ?

 

[Trip]

Just don't lift right off the throttle mid bend :doh: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: .






Rob

didn't get this. does it mean i do not remove my right foot off the throttle. and do the left braking stunt ?

 

[Odin]

didn't get this. does it mean i do not remove my right foot off the throttle. and do the left braking stunt ?

I suppose you could try some left foot braking, But if you're not used to doing it that might not be a good move ether lol.

No what I was getting at was if the car starts to get a little out of shape, Don't lift right off the throttle because you will be off the road in a hart beat :doh: :shock: , The natural thing you're brain wants to do is lift right off when we get in trouble which normally leads to disaster :doh: , I'm sure a lot of Pulsar's have been smashed this way over the years .

I've learnt from some near misses over the years to feather the throttle when I get in trouble, Which keeps power to the wheels which should if you're a lucky boy help get you out of trouble, And never ever put you're foot on the clutch as well as lift off :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: .




Rob

 

[Fazz]

what he siad, ...

But also in relation to anti lag... the turbo's in question are street use and very low lag. you shouldn't really need anti lag for raod use, are you building a track beast or is it your road car?
Do you have anti lag fitted already? It shortens the life of a turbo quite a bit I think.

 

[tenfoloten]

how much boost gt3076r can support?

 

[Fazz]

afaik its about 550bhp, at roughly 2.2bar... maybe more...? 2.4ish?


400bhp @ 1.2bar ish..

475bhp @ 1.8bar

550bhp @ 2.4bar give or take is my understanding..


(awaits beatings and correction with a ruler of knowledge)

 

[campbellju]

I have mixed opinions between the .64 and .86 since i'll be using anti-lag.

The curve is more of a 180 deg curve and very sharp. meaning there is no inner curve. And yes at that speed, my front tyres screamed (understeer) . To say everything. my car is still standard spec and it was my first race and 0 to no experience driving a pulsar.

I don't know your experience so excuse me if I'm teaching you to "suck eggs".

1. Invest your money and time in setting up the car properly, more HP never made anyone corner faster. First get sticky tyres. Then get some coilovers, an adjustable rear ARB and some rose jointed tie rod ends from Kirko. Get yourself a cup of tea and read some of my stickies. My car is optimised for 30-90mph and doesn't suffer with any understeer on the type of corners you're talking about. Bracpan published a photo recently of his car heroically negotiating a similar corner on 3 wheels.

2. My .64AR 3071 WG takes 0.25s according to my datalogit to hit full boost from full throttle, antilag would save this time but in practice it is barely noticable and I don't need to modify my driving style for this. Anti lag would save this 0.25s of not having full power but it would not enable my turbo to operate any lower down the rev range. At 3Krpm, your turbo is out of its operating range, you need either a different turbo or nitrous. You're engine is bogging down, its not lagging.

3. Modify your driving style to suit the car, a 4wd car (as any car) will understeer when driven incorrectly. The standard GtiR is surprisinlgy throttle adjustable once you've got used to it. For the slow corners on the video, try a slow in fast out style and you can then also use 1st to stop the engine bogging. Here is a link from a quick search if you're not familiar with the technique.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Columns/articleId=106488/subsubtypeId=216#2
Alternativley, perfect your hand brake turn...... seriously, it was invented for rallying, these drifters have just rebadged an old art. Unless you've biased your rear brakes, left foot braking might help or might just make your car understeer more on a corner like that.

Apologies if you know all this anyway, keep up the good work on the race track

Jim

 

[aerox]

There is now a gt3071r with a devided t3 exhaust housing. (78 a/r)
What do you think of that?

 

[Trip]

1. Invest your money and time in setting up the car properly, more HP never made anyone corner faster. First get sticky tyres. Then get some coilovers, an adjustable rear ARB and some rose jointed tie rod ends from Kirko. Get yourself a cup of tea and read some of my stickies. My car is optimised for 30-90mph and doesn't suffer with any understeer on the type of corners you're talking about. Bracpan published a photo recently of his car heroically negotiating a similar corner on 3 wheels.

Rallynuts seem to have all the handling stuff, Handling and r888 are next after i get safety in place. And as for coilovers, I am opting for the D2 (but not decided yet) . Are the rose jointed tie rod ends help to eliminate change in goemetry at suspension travel ?

2. My .64AR 3071 WG takes 0.25s according to my datalogit to hit full boost from full throttle, antilag would save this time but in practice it is barely noticable and I don't need to modify my driving style for this. Anti lag would save this 0.25s of not having full power but it would not enable my turbo to operate any lower down the rev range. At 3Krpm, your turbo is out of its operating range, you need either a different turbo or nitrous. You're engine is bogging down, its not lagging.

When you say 3071 WG, is it external or internal WG ? A dog box would be ideal for this as i can use the 1st gear too. Also a close/low ratio gearing setup such as smaller overall tyre diameter will help for now.

3. Modify your driving style to suit the car, a 4wd car (as any car) will understeer when driven incorrectly. The standard GtiR is surprisinlgy throttle adjustable once you've got used to it. For the slow corners on the video, try a slow in fast out style and you can then also use 1st to stop the engine bogging. Here is a link from a quick search if you're not familiar with the technique.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Columns/articleId=106488/subsubtypeId=216#2
Alternativley, perfect your hand brake turn...... seriously, it was invented for rallying, these drifters have just rebadged an old art. Unless you've biased your rear brakes, left foot braking might help or might just make your car understeer more on a corner like that.

I am pretty much green to the gtir world and also to the AWD cars. I was not driving my full me either, Being the first time ever on the race line, i was pretty much excited and nervouse at the same time, even the fact that you are tied down to the seat with a helmet on your face.



Thank Jim

Evan

 

[campbellju]

Cool answers Evan!!!8) 8) :lol:

My turbo is internal, for 400ish hp it seems fine. For 450ish I'd consider external.

My quiafe is a close ratio box, 1st to about 45mph(longer) then closer after that. However, 1st is a pretty pointless gear for me as its all revs and gear changes. The low ratio box as fitted to the homologation models would probably be better for road racing as long as you don't blow it up first with 450hp. Fast guy has one, get his personal experiences. His box on a 350hp car might be more effective than a Quaife on a 450hp car? I've got more hp for showing off down the pub ;-) :lol: :lol:

The Teins or D2's is down to spring rates really. The D2's are stiff but if your roads are smooth they'll be fine. If they're like UK roads then the Tein might be a better starting point. Either way you can always buy new springs. The "bump steer" kit affects the tie rod geometry by about 5mm. If you lower your car by 50mm it isn't a great deal. However!!!! It does greatly improve steering response making it easier to provoke turn in oversteer (Very handy on tight low speed corners)

Keep up the good work.

Jim

 

[Rishi]

There is now a gt3071r with a devided t3 exhaust housing. (78 a/r)
What do you think of that?

Think you are refering to the T3 Twin Scroll housing. It is supposed to improve spool up...

You will need a manifold to accept that setup through..


Rishi

 

[Rishi]

afaik its about 550bhp, at roughly 2.2bar... maybe more...? 2.4ish?


400bhp @ 1.2bar ish..

475bhp @ 1.8bar

550bhp @ 2.4bar give or take is my understanding..


(awaits beatings and correction with a ruler of knowledge)

GT3076R (GT30R)

423bhp @ 1.2bar

468bhp @ 1.8bar


You can run 2.1bar for the torque. Not much more power gain and again only if your cooling is upto it...



GT3082R (GT3040R)

540bhp @ 1.2bar

558bhp @ 1.8bar (Loads more torque)

Best run at 2.1 - 2.2bar for peak power and torque IMO




Note: These figures won't happen by magic. You need the correct engine build/setup and correct mapping to get these numbers.




Rishi

 

[nismoboy]

those are very conservative ratings for those turbos

3076 will do 500bhp

and a 3040 will do 600bhp no worries.

 

[Rishi]

those are very conservative ratings for those turbos

3076 will do 500bhp

and a 3040 will do 600bhp no worries.

Hahahaa!... You think so do you!... Thats calculated from Garrett's own Compressor Maps.

The only way to get those figures you are quoting above is on Race Fuel!...

Unless you can prove otherwise!..



Rishi

 

[Fazz]

Ok, finally found some spool info on this.

Muchos research has brought the following conclusion from another site:



GT3071R: This is the base turbo included in the kit. The turbo is perfect for those who want way more power than the stock turbo make, but don't want to go overboard with supporting mods. Our base fuel kit and 750cc injectors without a return line will max this turbo out. You will see full boost around 2800-2900rpm in most conditions, and the turbo will support 425whp if you feel that you need to turn up the boost to 28. If you road race, autocross, or simply want the quickest spooling aftermarket turbo setup that supports over 400whp, then the 3071R is for you. We recommend this turbo in a .63 A/R turbine housing.

GT3076R: This is probably the best matched ball bearing turbo for the 2.4L motor for street/strip purposes. It spools fast, and makes great power at all rpm levels and all boost levels. The turbo has a 52lb/min 56 trim compressor wheel in a 4” inlet port shroud compressor housing to minimize the chance of compressor surge. The turbine wheel is the standard 84 trim GT30. This turbo is perfect for those wanting to make big power on pump gas and go to the track once in a while at run some 11's. Full boost should be right around 3100-3200rpms with a .63 A/R turbine housing. On our test cars, we've pulled over 420whp on pump gas at 23psi. The maximum boost is around 33psi where we have seen 520whp. If these numbers are big enough for you, then look no further and order the 3076R. It’s kind of like the good ‘ol 50 trim standard bearing turbo we’ve grown to love over the years, however the 3076R has a little more balls. We recommend this turbo in a .63 A/R turbine housing. This turbo is also known as the GT30R and GT3052.



So its simply down to whether i want the slightly quicker spool, or the ability to run less boost for same power, all be it about 5-6psi less or .4barish.

But then we're only talking 1.6bar Vs 1.2bar for 410-420bhp on 3076 or 3071 respectively.

Interesting that the AR.63 is recommended for better spool.


I also found on other sites - think it was evo discussions that the 3076 was seen as being too laggy for the power. Most had decided the GT35R was the best choice as same lag and more power capability. Clearly that's not in my requirements but interesting on the 3076 spool thoughts.

 

[Fazz]

Final thoughts..

Also, for reference on anyone searching this in future, it seems the 3071's spool from nil to max boost is second to none and can't be matched.

See Ed's post here on Steve's car going from 0 to 1.7bar in just 250rpms in 4th gear!!!.
This is with the .83Ar so perhaps even quicker for the .63AR. - Jim may confirm? Or perhaps his track opponents

http://www.gtiroc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43401&highlight=3071

Seeing as my needs are 400-450bhp, the 3071 can cope with this and has the best spool time.
Boost is not too high so a difference of maybe .4 bar and I'll prob run high boost of 1.8bar-ish (if ignition sys takes it) so not too much to concern hopefully.

Waiting to speak to turbo suppliers before final decision.

Thanks to all for info and opinions.

Hope this helps others in the future.