shroom
Active Member
Were they a good price? Or is it something you just wanted to try
Decent shock/springs VS BC coilovers?
- Thread starter KieranEG6
- Start date
keastygtir
Well-Known Member
With the discount they were a bit cheaper than the BC's. I really didn't have much choice as there is nothing else available.
shroom
Active Member
Cool its always good to have another option
warpspeed
Well-Known Member
I have a set of Teins that I will be revalving this winter with lighter oil and using 450lb springs front 475-500lb rear, will post results, I may go stiffer or softer yet with the springs...the starting poundage is based on previous set-ups that I was happy with on a sunny gti.
I know folk will say that's to stiff for a road car but it's my preference as performance wins over comfort, I'm also getting a edfc off Martyn so will be able to alter damping quickly cutting down on research/development time to come up with a set-up that suits me.
Imo gtir's are more like a fwd set up i.e. stiff at the rear soft at the front and should be set-up so, one downside to this is lift-off oversteer, in the hands of most it should be fine providing they are aware of it and adopt a slow in fast out driving style, for the more pro-active drivers it will allow higher entry, apex and exit speeds.
I know folk will say that's to stiff for a road car but it's my preference as performance wins over comfort, I'm also getting a edfc off Martyn so will be able to alter damping quickly cutting down on research/development time to come up with a set-up that suits me.
Imo gtir's are more like a fwd set up i.e. stiff at the rear soft at the front and should be set-up so, one downside to this is lift-off oversteer, in the hands of most it should be fine providing they are aware of it and adopt a slow in fast out driving style, for the more pro-active drivers it will allow higher entry, apex and exit speeds.
keastygtir
Well-Known Member
they look awesome. Cant wait to get them on the car
agree on setup here. i'd go for a larger rear bias in the spring rate tho. i'm running about 16% more spring in the rear, and am considering going to 25% more at 750lbs. at 600/700 ( i wanted a much higher spring rate frequency for response, to be honest i feel like i should be running 800/1000lbs for a track car) the car still doesnt rotate enough for me , i've also got a modena diff, and a nismo 2way. on throttle lift it starts to rotate but doesn't quite snap as i think i'm getting some braking from the 2way. Hopefully the roll centre correction ball joint will put the front back into positive camber gain on roll rather than positive right now.
my street ride quality is not bad, as i've got a little over 2inches of travel and my struts are digressively valved with a big knee blow off point. i run a lot of front compression for front response in the low speed damping, and the high speed is pretty much flat.
i wish i could impart how much better a custom setup is for not much more money than these bc racing/d2 type coilovers.
the one advantage of koni 8611's is to control compression damping and the ability to get it revalved. can't stress enough how a good strut changes the car. but understandably it is much easier to buy a complete off the shelf product. if you get to ride in a properly setup suspension there's no turning back.
warpspeed
Well-Known Member
My car is predominantly a road car hence the softer springs, my other build should be around 650lb on the front 800lb on the rear but that will have a much better weight distribution with rad in the rear, pwr steering pump behind pass seat and 2 lpg tanks between the seats and rear axle. Engine bay can't get much lighter, no intercooler, pwr steering pump and dry sump, engine bay wiring loom weighs no more than 600grams and headlights are lighter than standard.
The aero should be well balanced too with full undertray and adjustable diffuser.
The aero should be well balanced too with full undertray and adjustable diffuser.
sounds amazing, i don't have the fabrication skills or know how to pull something like that off
my experience is mainly down on setup and driving, not so much building/fabrication.
wish i could get a carbon or FG hood way over here in canada.
this is my car corner balanecd, 61/39 weight distribution with me 185lbs in the car..
i dont know how else to drop the weight as all brackets have been removed, air con, battery in trunk. i'll be putting in a roll bar middle of next year, that should add some weight and rearward to help a bit with balance and rigidity.
i am considering cutting out the hump in the floor and getting the seat mounted as low as possible to lower the cog as well as i sit fairly high in my bucket.
red reading
Active Member
Have you spoken to CFX about a hood, they are on your side of the pond and made by far the best Kevlar light weight bonnet...if not I do have a seriously light fibreglass one but postage would be very awkward.
red reading
Active Member
One thing we are all negating to say here is suspension setup in also tyre dependent, can we also say what tyres we are using and pressures to suit with what disaplines the car is used for
i dont think they are in business anymore, at least i can't find any information regarding them in websites or anything unless you have a direct contact?
agreed,
i've been on
bridgestone re11's 205/50/15 on a 15x7 +30 varying pressures hot around 38-43 in front and 36-39 rear
toyo r1r 195/50/15 on 15x7 +30 hot pressuers 32 front 28 rear
up next on my list arriving in the spring are 15x8 +32 with 20mm spacers, to bring me to +12
with either 225/45/15 hankook rs3 v2's or maxxis rc-1's in 245/40/15's.
the gtir is under tire'd for its weight.. the s2k's i compete with run 255 square and are roughly the same weight. the miata and civic race cars i normally drive run 195/50/15 or 205/50/15 at around 2000lbs.
red reading
Active Member
Yokohama 215/45/17 and 225/40/17, prada spec 2, a539,ad08 ,ao48 on 7.25" wide rim....off set needs confirming but with 12mm rear spacer and 5mm front.
toyo 215/45/16 r1r,t1r 7.5" wide rim with 10mm spacers...offset to be confirmed.
all hot tyre pressures were 30-32psi except the prada spec 2 which seemed to like 38psi on a very hot day.
the rally car runs on Michelin slicks/wets which are 220/600/16, but have not used these as of yet as the car setup needs refinement for next year.
main use for main car is fast track and fast road , average 20 laps after setting tyre pressures before I run low on fuel , for small sprint circuits I run cheap tyres and 50psi as it's fun and slides around with minimum damping and front arb removed.
generally I prefer the car on a neutral feeling and predictable four wheel drift on the throttle but with lift off oversteer.
must add I do run a nismo clutch type LSD centre and front/rear...not standard viscous diffs , and next year I will be using a Modena front atb diff.
toyo 215/45/16 r1r,t1r 7.5" wide rim with 10mm spacers...offset to be confirmed.
all hot tyre pressures were 30-32psi except the prada spec 2 which seemed to like 38psi on a very hot day.
the rally car runs on Michelin slicks/wets which are 220/600/16, but have not used these as of yet as the car setup needs refinement for next year.
main use for main car is fast track and fast road , average 20 laps after setting tyre pressures before I run low on fuel , for small sprint circuits I run cheap tyres and 50psi as it's fun and slides around with minimum damping and front arb removed.
generally I prefer the car on a neutral feeling and predictable four wheel drift on the throttle but with lift off oversteer.
must add I do run a nismo clutch type LSD centre and front/rear...not standard viscous diffs , and next year I will be using a Modena front atb diff.
red reading
Active Member
I will ill see what I can find out
@NickR, thanks for posting, a couple of ideas as you clearly know what you're doing and all our cars are different with different objectives. I helped on EV's car who's not around here so much nowadays but used to do lots of hillclimbs with many tight hairpins so had similar issues.
GtiR's have rubbish caster, if you've not increased it then do that first. The ground control plates you're using will give you some but it might not be enough. If you're feeling brave then cut off your turret like myself and get closer to 6degs. Caster is far more effective at camber compensation upto 60mph corners than anything else you can do with a Macpherson strut. Most modern performance cars run 4 to 6degs, I expect our GtiR's were so low as they were still making cars with manual steering.
My observation would be your toe settings are at the conservative end for the type of driving you're doing. Ev found this worked in the end for him running on slicks:
Front total Toe: 14min OUT
Caster: 4deg30min
Camber: almost -3deg
Rear total Toe: 30min OUT
Camber: -1deg15min
The rear toe surprised me, I'd suggested -0.1deg toe out but Ev was happy with his balance and he could finally get round the hairpins without having to back off. On my road car I run -0.1deg toe out front and 0.05 toe in rear as my rear is unstable enough through other tricks and toe in helps to get 450hp down in a straight line on a damp road in the middle of the night! We all have to make our own judgement on what works best for us.
Some rake on the R works well with the back 5mm to 15mm higher than the front. Many people I know are in this range.
Ride hieght is really improtant on these cars, you may already know but the more hieght you have the more weight is transfered through your suspension arms which respond faster than springs. Playing with relative ride height can significantly change the way a car turns in and holds a corner.
Details can matter too, I found using polybushes on the rear ARB and OEM on the front just gave the balance I needed on tight corners and retained the front ARB size to keep its benefit for other situations. You might be able to do away with the front ARB altogether for this type of circuit?
Good luck with your setup and feedback what you learn as it all helps to move the community knowledge base forward.
Jim
GtiR's have rubbish caster, if you've not increased it then do that first. The ground control plates you're using will give you some but it might not be enough. If you're feeling brave then cut off your turret like myself and get closer to 6degs. Caster is far more effective at camber compensation upto 60mph corners than anything else you can do with a Macpherson strut. Most modern performance cars run 4 to 6degs, I expect our GtiR's were so low as they were still making cars with manual steering.
My observation would be your toe settings are at the conservative end for the type of driving you're doing. Ev found this worked in the end for him running on slicks:
Front total Toe: 14min OUT
Caster: 4deg30min
Camber: almost -3deg
Rear total Toe: 30min OUT
Camber: -1deg15min
The rear toe surprised me, I'd suggested -0.1deg toe out but Ev was happy with his balance and he could finally get round the hairpins without having to back off. On my road car I run -0.1deg toe out front and 0.05 toe in rear as my rear is unstable enough through other tricks and toe in helps to get 450hp down in a straight line on a damp road in the middle of the night! We all have to make our own judgement on what works best for us.
Some rake on the R works well with the back 5mm to 15mm higher than the front. Many people I know are in this range.
Ride hieght is really improtant on these cars, you may already know but the more hieght you have the more weight is transfered through your suspension arms which respond faster than springs. Playing with relative ride height can significantly change the way a car turns in and holds a corner.
Details can matter too, I found using polybushes on the rear ARB and OEM on the front just gave the balance I needed on tight corners and retained the front ARB size to keep its benefit for other situations. You might be able to do away with the front ARB altogether for this type of circuit?
Good luck with your setup and feedback what you learn as it all helps to move the community knowledge base forward.
Jim
@Kieran, I'm jealous that your "road" setup will need to work at faster speeds than many people's "track" setup 
Do what you can with the basics first, geometry, tyres etc. Do the free camber mod to get some decent camber on the front and rear. An adjustable rear ARB is not a bad starting point to adjust the car's balance. Unless you think your dampers are shot, do that as a 2nd step.
Do what you can with the basics first, geometry, tyres etc. Do the free camber mod to get some decent camber on the front and rear. An adjustable rear ARB is not a bad starting point to adjust the car's balance. Unless you think your dampers are shot, do that as a 2nd step.
@campbellju
yah i went pretty conservative with toe, until this is truly a track day only car (i've got my eye on the new ND miata coming out) i need some straight line stability for daily driving. its already diving into grooves in the road as is.
i actually would like to run 0.1 out in the front per side, with 0.05 out rear. the civic/miata/crx race cars i use run about 0.15 out front and 0.1 rear for rotation. but they're low power and light so a bit easier to save when things get hairy.
the pulsar is just my toy, its not competitive for the kind of racing i do due to classing. i am going to take up hill climbs next year if i can find time as i'm big into 4 stroke karting at the moment.
i do like a car with a very positive front end, with a fairly loose rear end that likes to walk but is predictable. understeer drives me up the wall, so as a workaround i drive with my left foot on the brake through corners, probably not great for my brakes, clutch, and motor, but its fun
i am considering cutting the shock tower .. you've already read my mind. i'm at 3.4 degs caster with the whiteline bushing. i have pondered getting the shock tower an inch higher and more rearward to get caster and more travel at the same time. id like to do the same to the rear shock tower for suspension travel.
i am after the roll centre correction first Roll Center Correction Kit Sentra
these guys make a ball joint for the b15 sentra which is 38.1 mm which will fit in an rnn14 control arm.
i'm working with another fellow who is going to make some 39.1mm ball joints for the b13/b14 front control arms.
i'd like to use the b14/n15 arm for the wider track and 2 degs of camber that comes with it. if this falls through, i'll go with the previous RC ball joint.
it should put the control arm back into alignment so the suspension moves through negative camber not positive at the lowered ride height.
i am going to switch up my rear springs a little bit as well, im running a 7 inch spring in front and 8 in the rear.
going to go with a 6 inch spring in front and a 6inch rear with 2 inch swift assist spring to get some rebound travel and soften the impact when i pick up the inside rear.
at any rate, i still feel the car has under sized tires for its weight and the demand it places on the front tires. i'll see if i can squeeze the 245/40/15's onto the car, else i'll just end up on 225/45's.
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KieranEG6
Member
It makes life quite difficult when resesrching what people from off island rate and recommend. I suppose a road setup for us over here would be more like a long circuit setup or similar to a nurburgring setup haha. But also needing compensation for fairly rough roads.@Kieran, I'm jealous that your "road" setup will need to work at faster speeds than many people's "track" setup
Do what you can with the basics first, geometry, tyres etc. Do the free camber mod to get some decent camber on the front and rear. An adjustable rear ARB is not a bad starting point to adjust the car's balance. Unless you think your dampers are shot, do that as a 2nd step.
you want something with as much travel as possible
i'd take stock strut housings, gut them and put in b15 sentra spec V koni yellows if you're on a budget.
use ground control coilover sleeves n springs with 300lb front 350lb rear, oem or the GC top hat (which also gives another .75 inch of travel.
you can build all that for roughly 12-1300$ usd. its some work, but will give you max travel for more road comfort and still run a decent spring rate.