Decent shock/springs VS BC coilovers?

[KieranEG6]

As It stands I was quite surprised at how well balanced my R seemed at high speeds even on its ??yr old shocks and springs. Especially given its almost agricultural 4x4 stance.

Now I am at a junction as I need a new suspension set to have the car sitting lower. But it seems allot of people rate a good old shock/spring setup fairly well. But others also rate the BC's very well as a track/daily alternative. Have a couple of sets of MeisterR's on my civics and one set of BC's, all 3 with same spring rates. The BC's win on damper adjustability and suppleness as you could say.

Trouble is of course the same old must be supportive for Track use but supple enough for road use. The road use will not be daily more odd weekend use. Im leaning towards BC's but they don't come up second hand all that often in decent condition and at £700 they are a quite expensive single hit. Basically I am running low on funds and finding it hard to justify such amounts on a car that will sit around most of the time for now. Especially with my DC2 getting a quote of £1200 for a bit of rust removal and future protection. Plus its quiet round here so no harm in getting some fresh discussions going.

Recently I have seen a few sets of Gab's with lowering springs floating about the used market and got me wondering will they be enough to meet my needs.

What does everyone run and what are your views on them? Can be a show and tell, of what you run and why if anyone likes.

 

[johnny gtir]

I heard (not experiance) alot run gaz with lowering springs but they are desinged for standard height springs so you loose travel on the strut and compress it to far. Maybe this was the 70/40 drop spings ie the 70 on front. Get some opinions off others re spings if you deciced the gaz route. Who recently mentioned the company doing custom spring height and rating.

 

[red reading]

I have tried a lot of setups, and found below
on road....
tein are over damped And under sprung and make the car skittish and jump about on the road, very poor in the wet and not enough suspension travel.
koni and whitline springs...just about spot on on the road
bc need to ask for stronger springs but with them and the damping on minimum are pretty good on the road
any of the old gab etc are just about knackered and no better than standard new stuff with decent springs,
standard completely but on a very genuine low milage car handled very well.
Ohlins inverted shocks (again a low milage car and they looked new and were adjustable) very good.
track

bc with stronger than spec springs are ok with damping and careful set up.
nismo Tarmac ( proper rally struts made by kyb with very large dampers) fantastic
proflex I am yet to have rebuilt
tein with stronger springs very good but blew there seals and limited adjustability and limited travel
intrax....when I can afford them I will fit them

others I wouldn't bother with as suspension travel is too short for the dampers to work in there effective zone and the road biased stuff is old and worn out like the gab etc and not worth it as the oil has degraded and has no consistency when it gets hot.

 

[shroom]

Yep I have had a few cars with different suspension, my old car had the tein HA, quite enjoyed them but as Danny said they can be quite skittish especially with my crap driving so ended up on the wrong side of the road a few times or shit my pants when overtaking (not a great confidence builder).

Had a car with KYB Super Special Rally which was very low, handled like crap and felt very wooly. Had a car with adjustable damper GAB but as Danny says due to the age its hard to justify the expense and they are no better as there so old and unserviceable!

Also had a car with D2 coilovers which wasn't too bad but I am now purchasing some Koni suspension to go on my current R instead of coilovers. All depends on what you like, I also had a standard car with standard dampers and it seemed to feel really good on the back roads too. Although sometimes it doesn't always look so good jacked up like that.

Just get something reasonably cheap, forget the handling go for more power its all about the speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed :whip2:

 

[johnny gtir]

Agree with tein comments i could never get my car right with them fitted. More so with the rear stripped and back end would step out in damp-wet conditions. Thought it was tire choice at first.

 

[fubar andy]

Funds restricted

BC or D2

Personally I'm going to email racing logic in Auz see if they will still offer GTiR coilovers.

After that I'm going to carry on talking to Bilstin

 

[KieranEG6]

Have had experience with Teins on my civic a good few years back, brand new super streets. From the sounds of things they act similar on most cars. Skitsh, over damped and crashy. Tried similar things, fitting higher spring rates to compensate but no joy. Have heard the higher end Tein sets are half decent but Im certainly not taking the £1k chance to find out.

You guys hit the nail on the head with old used sets of shock/springs, you can never guarantee they will be in decent shape. With most costing around £400 thats like almost 70% the cost of a fresh new set of coilovers.

 

[shroom]

Have had experience with Teins on my civic a good few years back, brand new super streets. From the sounds of things they act similar on most cars. Skitsh, over damped and crashy. Tried similar things, fitting higher spring rates to compensate but no joy. Have heard the higher end Tein sets are half decent but Im certainly not taking the £1k chance to find out.

You guys hit the nail on the head with old used sets of shock/springs, you can never guarantee they will be in decent shape. With most costing around £400 thats like almost 70% the cost of a fresh new set of coilovers.

I do get disappointed that the new coilovers soon deteriate and look quite crap after a while (not that that's always the main thing but after £600 you want the paint to stay on). My Tein paint began to peal off and looks sh1t very quickly. Also the D2 coilovers really didn't look great, possibly gravely roads I'm not sure.

 

[red reading]

I found the BC have done well but I don't tend to drive my car on salty icy roads much, if you assemble them with copper slip and put marine grease on the threads exposed that helps a lot.

 

[shroom]

I found the BC have done well but I don't tend to drive my car on salty icy roads much, if you assemble them with copper slip and put marine grease on the threads exposed that helps a lot.

Yep, salt is the killer!

I did put some agricultural grease on the D2s which did help for a while. Although I was not in possession of the one car for a while (you know the story) so fuck knows how it was kept lol

 

[red reading]

Yeah you were fucked by that bloke...there is another thing you can use to un seize and protect...they use it on aircraft and you can buy it,it's called acf50 by Addams aviation...been using it on bikes for years and it actually dissolves corrosion and is the best stuff I have ever found, expensive but you don't need to use it often as is rated to last a year, they make grease as well.

 

[shroom]

Yeah you were fucked by that bloke...there is another thing you can use to un seize and protect...they use it on aircraft and you can buy it,it's called acf50 by Addams aviation...been using it on bikes for years and it actually dissolves corrosion and is the best stuff I have ever found, expensive but you don't need to use it often as is rated to last a year, they make grease as well.

Lol its minor compared to some poor people.

That sounds like some good stuff!

I have got to get underneath mine and give it a good clean and sort the whole underside out, for not been in my hands for around 2 years its still the cleanest shell I have ever owned rust wise. Some people think spraying waxoyl over rust means its now mint!

 

[red reading]

True, first thing ever to put me off in an advert it fresh undersealed or wax oiled ,always means something to hide.

 

[Makaveli_se7en]

ACF-50 is where its at for rust protection on struts.

 

[Dangerous Dave]

ACF-50 is where its at for rust protection on struts.

second that

 

[red reading]

That acf50 is strange, it smells sort of like wd40 but it is like a pink foam...I coated half a piece of steel with it once and it was left out side for ages, half rusted like feck and the coated bit didn't , I spray it on my bike when it's hot and it all steams up and gets in every nook and cranny, the bike is now 8 years old and still mint.

 

[red reading]

New things coming with suspension that I will be trying next year, I have already sussed how to make the wheel base adjustable for pennies and done it to my car, I have a few more ideas yet one of which is to move the front wheels foward to move the mass of the car further back, again it will be easy I just want to try it first as it will also increase castor.

 

[nickr]

if you've got some fabbing skills and willing to put the effort, stock strut housings, koni 8611-1257 double adjustable inserts, ground control coilover sleeves with 400lb front 500lb rear rates, and ground control top hat. you could probably get away with 350 front and 400lb rear springs for a more streetable setup. really depends on your ride height.

my setup is similar to the above, with a ground control advance design double adjustable strut, 600lb front 700lb rear spring, ground control top hat with caster and camber adjustment running 3 degrees camber in front, 1.5 rear, with 0.05 toe out front , 0 toe rear, and 3.5 degrees of caster. i've also got a bumpsteer kit mounted below the knuckle followed by a roll centre correction ball joint soon.



what it looks like from inside
[video=youtube;VrWF4hLAHoE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrWF4hLAHoE[/video]

and from outside, ignore the first part, someone who i've been instructing all year made it after i gave him a lift in my toy car
[video=youtube;4oqMJ3C9ZKU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oqMJ3C9ZKU[/video]

 

[campbellju]

I think the problem with coilovers is not so much they are inherently right or wrong but that the majority of them are installed badly.

Ride height and damping have big effects on the car's balance, with coilovers you have the opportunity to mess both up really badly.

For every decent setup I've put on a car I've had at least 3 bad ones. Every time I made a major change to the suspension setup it took a few tries to get the balance back into the car that I'd lost.

Many of us over the years have been trying different ideas and I think there is a consensus around what works and what doesn't work as well (in certain situations). There is not a perfect setup, understanding the NME settings highlighted the difference to me in setting up a rally car vs a track car. A road car is (very) different again.

 

[keastygtir]

I have just done a deal and bought some meister zeta R coilovers from them. I am going to do a full write up on install etc when the car is sprayed. I chose them based on the great reviews other car clubs had giving them.