Bee R limiter

J

jambo_gtir

Member
Hi guys.

I have done quite a bit of research into these but just wanted the opinon from those of you who have actually used these.

The manufacturers blurb states it is safer than the factory fuel cut limiter but I don't think it is. Nissan wouldn't use that method if they knew it would damage the engine surely. These bee r limiters cut the spark leaving lots of fuel going into the exhaust which must knacker the turbo eventually.
You only have to look on youtube to see people using them and then laughing at how the tip of their exhaust is glowing orange.... :doh:

A proper launch control cuts fuel and spark. I want to fit this to my car but I wont be using the launch control at all; I just want it to kick in just before factory limit so will only last a second or so.

What you guys think?
 
Fusion Ed

Fusion Ed

Active Member
the rocker issue is random, I know loads of drift sr20s that only rarely throw rockers. Yet had a pulsar once that did it simply by hitting the rev limiter one.

Proper launch control retards the ignition, and doesn't cut fuel.

This can all be changed on the stock ecu btw.
 
J

jambo_gtir

Member
Cheers for the reply Ed.

So by retarding the ignition your buring less of the mixture and 'wasting' some of the power in effect...which would limit the revs?

So my standard ECU just cuts the injector then?

I have just bought a new turbo off Bob so I will be coming to see you soon Ed to get a Nistune board and a re-map, so can the igntion retard be done on Nistune?

Cheers
 
J

jambo_gtir

Member
By burning less of the mixture and wasting power I meant your shifting the PPP further away from TDC by retarding the ignition; therefore loosing the power generated.....that right yer? lol
 
PobodY

PobodY

Moderators
Staff member
They are not the only ignition cut limiter. - I think Omex (?) do something similar without any of the bullshit about launch control; I think they just sell it as a programmable rev limiter for rallying etc.

Ed, can you also change the cut on the ECU to be ignition rather than fuel (which would achieve the same result)? - I suspect it's as simple as somebody thinking it would be easier to put a cut on the fuel map than on the ignition.

Does retarding the ignition mean you get the turbo spooling-up earlier as you're opening the exhaust port earlier (thus alowing the burning mixture out).
 
J

jambo_gtir

Member
PobodY said:
Does retarding the ignition mean you get the turbo spooling-up earlier as you're opening the exhaust port earlier (thus alowing the burning mixture out).
Click to expand...
Yer I think your right mate, similar to how anti-lag works where by fuel ignites before turbo keeping it spinning? I guess thats why they call these Bee R's 'power builders' as the unburnt fuel that gets thrown out the engine will ignite and keep the turbo spinning....as well as putting it under lots of stress lol
 
P

pulsarboby

Guest
im 99.5% sure the gtir does not have or need fcd as its ignition based cut not fuel built into ecu

as the unburnt fuel that gets thrown out the engine will ignite and keep the turbo spinning
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not true its double firing in the cylinder that keeps turbo spooling

antilag works by injecting fuel after tdc normally by an electronic solenoid which temporarily opens butterflies on throttle bodies, theres a twinfire spark which causes double firing before and after tdc which respools the turbo (hense the cracks and bangs from exhaust)
trust me on this though......it severely shortens the life of your tubby
 
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J

jambo_gtir

Member
Ah ok, i didn't know that.... The reason I thought it injected fuel into the manifold was because on my mates Celica GT4 (ST205) it comes with the anti-lag plumbed in (but without the ECU of a few other bits to actually make it work). It looked as though it injects fuel into manifold. Still, makes perfect sense what your saying, I'll update my knowledge base lol.
 
Fusion Ed

Fusion Ed

Active Member
PobodY said:
They are not the only ignition cut limiter. - I think Omex (?) do something similar without any of the bullshit about launch control; I think they just sell it as a programmable rev limiter for rallying etc.
Click to expand...
Its just a simple rev limiter. Cuts ignition, as that's what it connects into, also inc launch control as it has another lower set limit you can use.

Ed, can you also change the cut on the ECU to be ignition rather than fuel (which would achieve the same result)? - I suspect it's as simple as somebody thinking it would be easier to put a cut on the fuel map than on the ignition.
Click to expand...
Yes. basically.

Does retarding the ignition mean you get the turbo spooling-up earlier as you're opening the exhaust port earlier (thus allowing the burning mixture out).
Click to expand...
Yes significantly. That's the whole point. Quite easy to make half a bar boost with a fairly tame launch control setup @3500 rpm on stock ecu.
 
J

jambo_gtir

Member
But during the combustion stroke the valves are all closed so how does the anti-lag squirt more fuel in? Does it squirt extra fuel during intake stroke giving a really rich mixture which can then be ignited twice?
This is a good thread, some good info here!
 
P

pulsarboby

Guest
you may possibly be correct there jim.....ive never seen that type of system before though and would have thought it would have blown the turbo or engine to pieces by injecting fuel into an ex manifold as your creating an explosion outside of a controlled enviorement which would stall pistons coming upto tdc on firing stroke and put shite loads of stress on conrods and crank but no doubt there maybe systems ive not heard about




sorry been more posts since i clicked the send button lol
it injects fuel btdc as normal and after tdc.....dont forget its a 4 stroke engine with firing at different intervals being 1,3,4,2 which is relevant to ignition timing and valve overlap on cylinders
 
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J

jambo_gtir

Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antilag_system

Ah, so I was almost correct (not a complete numpty haha). Must have been air bypass piping that i saw then I suppose.
Mind you, how trustworthy is wikipedia? lol

Inlet bypass An ALS system working with a bypass valve which feeds air directly to the exhaust system can be made more refined than the system described above. Some of the earliest systems of this type were used by Ferrari in F1. Another well-known application of this type of anti-lag system was in the WRC version of the 1995 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution III and Toyota Celica GT-Four (ST205). Brass tubes fed air from the turbocharger's Compressor Bypass Valve (CBV) to each of the exhaust manifold tracts, in order to provide the necessary air for the combustion of the fuel. The system was controlled by two pressure valves, operated by the ECU. Besides the racing version, the hardware of the anti-lag system was also installed in the 2500 "Group A homologation base WRC method car" street legal Celica GT-Fours. However, in these cars the system was disabled and inactive. The tubes and valves were only present for homologation reasons. On the Mitsubishi Evolution later series (evo 4-9, JDM models only) the SAS (Secondary Air System) can be activated to provide Antilag.
 
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P

pulsarboby

Guest
yep (very good) i can see how that works now

in a nutshell air is fed into ex manifold at each port aftertdc when ex valve is beginning to open on same cylinder and air is injected back into cylinder to enable the fuel to atomise and re-ignite and respool the tubby

yes is an interesting thread, i knew there were a few various systems but you threw me with fuel being injected directly into ex manifold before turbo lol
 
J

jambo_gtir

Member
pulsarboby said:
yes is an interesting thread, i knew there were a few various systems but you threw me with fuel being injected directly into ex manifold before turbo lol
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lol, yer that was me being a numpty!!

It's good to get a good convo going on here again.

So....I may fit this Bee R thing but just going to be careful with it. If I throw a rocker I'll be so pissed off though! I'll just set fire to the car and claim on insurance. It's not like they wont believe me, the crime rate on the IOW is the highest in the UK.....LOL
 
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