lagging

[Braveheart]

This is a very interesting thread!
I have just returned from the States and brought many goodies back with me.
In with my stash was DEI 2" x 50 exhaust wrap + locking ties, reflect & cool 12" x 24" sheet and Universal Turbo Instalation kit (turbo housing nappy and pipe wrap + clips)
I have many parts to fit but I'm in no real hurry so I may be able to take temp reading before and after changes.

 

[Fusion Ed]

What about a standard top mount with those C02 spray bars? But you do not want any c02 to be ingested in the intake.

No real point, CO2 really doesn't last long and as there isn't really much metal mass to the intercooler it will heat up pretty rapidly after the CO2 is stopped.

 

[Odin]

this would be proven by anyone who has an air temp sensor fitted in line!

I have an air temp sender fitted mate and it proves that the front mount with un lagged pipes is indeed a lot better than the top mount, Especially when sitting in traffic, So you are speaking up of you fat ass :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: , I'm not saying it wouldn't be better with lagging, But it still does a better job with out. I have the motec logs to prove ;-) :lol:.





Rob

 

[stevepudney]

I agree with Jim in as much as what we should be doing is keeping the hot things hot and the cool things cool.

I don't have the logs but 5 yrs ago I did have an ATS fitted to my top mount which I fitted to my FMIC when I did the conversion and despite anything being lagged the air temps passing into the inlet side of the IC were cooler than the top mount could ever achieve whatever the situation.

Personally, as it's beneficial to lag the turbine housing and the downpipe (to keep the heat in to aid exhaust air speed and scavenging) anyway, I would have thought it makes more sense to lag these first and then if you feel your set up would really benefit from it lag the compressor outlet pipe next and then perhaps the outlet side of the IC.

With regards the plenum/throttle body coolant heating circuit if you really wanted to you could do the bypass mod, then use a small 12v water pump, some pipe and a small front mounted rad (for a daily driver you could even mount a fan to the rad) and plumb it all back it back to the old route going through the plenum/throttle body's so instead of heating the air that passes through the plenum your making a final attempt to cool the charge down before it gets swallowed by the engine. You might drop inlet temps by half a degree :lol: :lol:



Steve

 

[PaulB]

Yes Bob,

I didnt make myself too clear, the reason I said for the hot air coming out of the turbo wasnt from the heating of it by the turbo body itself, but from the compressing of the air.
As someone said above.

 

[pulsarboby]

think some of you's are missing the point here!

how can a red hot pipe heated by exhaust manifold be of any benefit what so ever???

the idea of a fmic is to cool charge temps.....right!

so if you heat the induction pipe UN-NECESSARILY then the fmic will have to do even more work to disperse that heat.
now most of you's lot are using cars as road transport, and in this brill country of ours, we come across many traffic jams, now heres the good bit.........how can a fmic cool the charge air when the vehicle is stationary or moving slowly???

this is and will be a major problem if you dont lag the pipes from your ic, as they will get very very hot under the bonnet.
cant say that the turbos making the pipe hot as it is hardly spinning and cars off boost, so all that heat is coming mainly from your exhaust manifold and soaking right into the thin allie pipe directly above it!

cant put it any more simple than that, its not a hard thing to figure out:roll: :lol:

forget sprays, aquamist and whatever else as the majority of you's dont have it, so dont put that into the equasion. im talking about a straight forward setup.

i will prove to you all that a car with a lagged pipe and manifold with a temp sensor fitted, will have a cooler charge air than one without!
doesnt take a rocket scientist to work that one out:lol:






paul. still missing the point! if that pipe wasnt connected to anything at all, just left loose but in situ where it is!
it would still get very very hot due to heat from manifold which the ic somehow has to cool in traffic or when vehicle is moving slow!

 

[MarkTurbo]

cant say that the turbos making the pipe hot as it is hardly spinning and cars off boost, so all that heat is coming mainly from your exhaust manifold and soaking right into the thin allie pipe directly above it!

Even driving off boost the compressor housing will still get hot, it is bolted to a big part of the cars exhaust after all ;-)

I do agree with what your saying in this thread though Bob ;-) Having a big length of the intercooler piping sat right above the exhaust manifold is not ideal!! Thats why i did my piping this way: http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/MarkTuurbo/?action=view&current=DSC02291.jpg the pipe is very close to the manifold but not above it so hopefully dosent pick up too much heat from it with the car moving ;-) I have just thought of something now though, being right behind the rad its probably picking up a bit of heat from the warm air thats being pushed through :doh:

Might lag it now i think :lol:

 

[Braveheart]

The Intercooler pipework on my Delica is made from heat resistant fabric and the intercooler has a fan fitted on the underside which draws cold air through from the top.

 

[Keira]

the sole reason i rotated the turbo 180 degrees was to

a. keeps the pipe run short
b. keeps hot things on one side and the things i want cold on the other

 

[MarkTurbo]

That van looks interesting, but whats a "Bunkhouse" :shock:

Sounds a bit

 

[pulsarboby]

been up to see scotty when i delivered him the trailer.
he runs a guest house - hostel
and hes got a bar and everything:-D
he invited me and clare to stop there the night but couldnt get my lorry down the narrow lane.
sounds very nice there too!

 

[Braveheart]

That van looks interesting, but whats a "Bunkhouse" :shock:

Sounds a bit

Bunkhouse is a modern word for hostel.
Our listing in the BT phonebook the first year was "Bumhouse" ... typo they said. :doh:
Anyway, we were full every night....:lol: "A shag or your money back"
The core buisness is walkers doing a 98 mile walk from Glasgow to Fort William.
I have 6 rooms, 18 beds and could host a gathering of GTiR's.... maybe we could close the B829 (15 mile single track road) and use it for a time trial event...

 

[Dooie Pop Pop]

Bunkhouse is a modern word for hostel.
Our listing in the BT phonebook the first year was "Bumhouse" ... typo they said. :doh:
Anyway, we were full every night....:lol: "A shag or your money back"
The core business is walkers doing a 98 mile walk from Glasgow to Fort William.
I have 6 rooms, 18 beds and could host a gathering of GTiR's.... maybe we could close the B829 (15 mile single track road) and use it for a time trial event...

three beds per room? id have to sleep against a corner to protect my chastity:shock: :lol:

 

[Odin]

three beds per room? id have to sleep against a corner to protect my chastity:shock: :lol:

You'd be very safe matey :shock: , Well unless their was a bin liner handy anyway :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: .





Rob

 

[carlengerer]

I have an air temp sender fitted mate and it proves that the front mount with un lagged pipes is indeed a lot better than the top mount, Especially when sitting in traffic, So you are speaking up of you fat ass :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: , I'm not saying it wouldn't be better with lagging, But it still does a better job with out. I have the motec logs to prove ;-) :lol:.





Rob

That makes the most sense...usually the heat soak suffered should really make that much difference since the air is travelling at enough velocity, and the pipe run from the cooler to the plenum is the most important?..what is definately most obvious is the static temperature difference between a top mount core and a front mount core.

 

[pulsarboby]

That makes the most sense...usually the heat soak suffered should really make that much difference since the air is travelling at enough velocity, and the pipe run from the cooler to the plenum is the most important?..what is definately most obvious is the static temperature difference between a top mount core and a front mount core.

thats very true! the fmic core will be cooler than a topmount core.
but the point here that im trying my hardest to get across is that: in traffic and a slow moving vehicle the under bonnet temps will be high and the heat will be absorbed into the pipe to the ic via the manifold, which will make the ic's job even harder to disperse the heat! therefore it will be less efficient than one with a lagged pipe on the inlet:frusty:
i cant put it any simpler than that.


its not for putting on a poorly part of your car to make it feel better, or for wrapping around your poorly hand, after you spent a day working on your car, or for putting around your head to use as a sweat band when your hot!
it has but one purpose in life and thats to keep hot things hot and cool things cool:doh: :lol:

 

[K9ng]

Would it be the same to wrap in reflective heat wrap?

 

[youngsyp]

Would it be the same to wrap in reflective heat wrap?

For the extra expense of the reflective stuff, the benefit over plain old 'exhaust' wrap isn't worth it !

Just make sure you over lap it by around 0.5 inches and the insulation properties will be more than up to the job !

You could use the self adhesive reflective tape on the intercooler end tanks, that are facing the rad. Although, again you probably won't see a difference !

 

[Odin]

For the extra expense of the reflective stuff, the benefit over plain old 'exhaust' wrap isn't worth it !

Just make sure you over lap it by around 0.5 inches and the insulation properties will be more than up to the job !

I don't agree at all, The standard wrap will get nearly as hot as the pipe it's self if sat in traffic, The only proper way would be to use either the reflective stuff or as I have ceramic coat the manifold and exhaust down pipe plus the turbo exhaust housing, That way keeping the under bonnet temps far better under control.



Rob

 

[youngsyp]

I don't agree at al, The standard wrap will get nearly as hot as the pipe it's self if sat in traffic, The only proper way would be to use either the reflective stuff or as I have ceramic coat the manifold and exhaust down pipe plus the turbo exhaust housing, That way keeping the under bonnet temps far better under control.



Rob

Rob, why did you have the exhaust parts ceramic coated ? Was it because the ceramic coat reflects heat ?
I hope not as, ceramic coating simply insulates the piece it's coating. Ceramic coating does exactly the same as fibreglass/silica wrapping, it just might be a bit lighter !
I didn't say that the reflective wrapping wouldn't be effective, I just don't think it would be that much more effective than a 4mm covering (that's about what it would be, if overlapped correctly) of 'normal' exhaust wrap, especially on the intercooler pipes !

As always, I'm happy to be proved wrong ! ;-)

If anyone is keen to wrap hot and cold parts, give this stuff a punt: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ALUTEX-SILICA...ryZ38786QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Not only is it cheap but, it has about the best thermal properties of all the wrap on the market and you also get a length of stainless lock wire, to help with the fitting. That's much easier to use than the usual 'zip strips' !

Paul