Does PowerFC disable Lambda control ?

GINGA

Active Member
Yeh mines running at 1.3bar at the moment but with the jgy lag monster turbo on but i'm hoping that will change once the ecu mapped properly as loads more advance can be dialled in now before the turbo comes on boost to reduce the lag but got to get a decent way of checking for det first as i'm also on standard pistons :D

Whats your airflow and injector duty cycles at out of interest :?:
 
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memski

Guest
I'm going to have a go at mapping mine myself once I get a wideband (and maybe detcans - andy you reading this? :p ) Already have a base map set which is massively overfuelled to compensate for overboosting :oops: EGT's are all good too. Having the software would help immensely though, may try and get hold of that by the end of the year.
 

Jobi Joba

Member
GINGA said:
can hitting high 50's by blipping throttle stationary lol
!!!! Way too much!!!On std map,running 1 bar,WITHOUT walbro fitted,with high lift camshafts,Z32 AFM,FMIC,ported and gas flowed head (etc) a friend of I heard knock in a friend's car when the apexi said 41...Now with Walbro fitted the problem seems to be cured...But 50 when stationary is a bit...high.

GINGA said:
Do you know if the mapping points on the trace map are the same for both inj and ing maps I presume they are as theres only the one trace map :?
They r the same.
 

Jobi Joba

Member
memski said:
I'm going to have a go at mapping mine myself once I get a wideband (and maybe detcans - andy you reading this? :p ) Already have a base map set which is massively overfuelled to compensate for overboosting :oops: EGT's are all good too. Having the software would help immensely though, may try and get hold of that by the end of the year.
I thought u had a good map done by RC?
 
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memski

Guest
Yep, was mapped but had problems with not holding boost so a safe map was put on. Not ideal but don't really fancy travelling all the way up there again :?
 

ashills

Active Member
u guys who neeed to lisdten for det ive just made a cool little device with the help oif a mate
i had a knock sensor off my knock link laying around so i used that and put it through a little converter and it allows me to use headphones to listen to the engine while mapping
and u hear whatever the knock sensor can pick up and u make ur own mind up whats bad rather than the knock sensor just showing a value or figure
 
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AJ4

Guest
Thats a good idea Ashills, I've done a similar thing in the past with a small audio amplifier and a set of personal stereo earphones, works really well. When I get my knocklink set up I'm going to have an audio feed as well to listen.

Knock links - like I said above, a friend of mine makes his own knock link boards which can be tuned for any engine ( his is on a Scoob at the moment ), and I'm making wideband O2 control boards. All the design and prototypes are made and tested, we're just trying to find somewhere to make the pcb's commercially. The circuits and PCB design are all open source, we're not selling them or anything.

Jobi Joba - Ginga is getting det because his downpipe is tapping on the block and making the same noise that det makes, he's not seeing real det :D

Ginga - 83% for injectors ( !! ) and about 4 volts for AFM. I've got a Z32 AFM, just not bothered to fit it yet :oops: Am leaving the injectors for the moment because I'm going to use twin 440's on the new engine with a different manifold.
 

Jobi Joba

Member
Ross said:
Knock links - like I said above, a friend of mine makes his own knock link boards which can be tuned for any engine ( his is on a Scoob at the moment ), and I'm making wideband O2 control boards. All the design and prototypes are made and tested, we're just trying to find somewhere to make the pcb's commercially. The circuits and PCB design are all open source, we're not selling them or anything.
Really interesting.Could u email me what u have?

Ross said:
Jobi Joba - Ginga is getting det because his downpipe is tapping on the block and making the same noise that det makes, he's not seeing real det :D
I know,but if the PFC thinks it is real det,then the ignition timing gonna be modified to ensure the safety of the engine...
 
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AJ4

Guest
Jobi Joba said:
I know,but if the PFC thinks it is real det,then the ignition timing gonna be modified to ensure the safety of the engine...
I looked into this a while ago, and apparently the PFC doesn't retard timing at all when it see's det ( unlike the standard ecu ) :shock: I'll test it at the weekend and see if its true...

I'll email you some circuit diagrams and stuff that we are working on. Also working on a sequential shift light ( 10 LED, 100 rpm per LED ) if you are interested.
 

Jobi Joba

Member
Ross said:
I looked into this a while ago, and apparently the PFC doesn't retard timing at all when it see's det ( unlike the standard ecu ) :shock: I'll test it at the weekend and see if its true...
Yep,I really would like to know that...

Ross said:
I'll email you some circuit diagrams and stuff that we are working on. Also working on a sequential shift light ( 10 LED, 100 rpm per LED ) if you are interested.
Thx,I'm really interested in a device which could help me to clearly see the knock.
And ur shift light stuff can also be a usefull system to avoid keeping the eyes on the rev meter.
 
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AJ4

Guest
here is an easy way to check if the timing is being retarded during knock - remove the TPS plug, look at the timing with a normal timing light and tap the block near cylinder one with a big spanner ;) You will see the timing retard and then jump back ( is a good method for checking the standard ecu and det sensor operation is ok )

Will try it tommorow when I get home on the PFC.

BTW, PM me an email address and I'll send you some info on wideband / knocklink circuit diagrams etc
 

GINGA

Active Member
The pfc doesn't retard timing under knock it will only flash the engine warning light a few times if the det level goes above 60 :wink:

Ginga - 83% for injectors ( !! ) and about 4 volts for AFM. I've got a Z32 AFM, just not bothered to fit it yet Am leaving the injectors for the moment because I'm going to use twin 440's on the new engine with a different manifold.
Mines on 90% with 700's in and a bit above 4.5v's on the z32 maf :shock: doesn't feel that quick though got to sort out the downpipe and then have a play with the ignition timing :D
 
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AJ4

Guest
wow, i think one of us has something wrong then, 90% on 700's ? What fuel pressure are you running ?

I know there is something wrong with mine, I worked out it was impossible to produce the power I'm getting with 440 cc injectors at the duty cycle and fuel pressure. I think my FPR must be knacked, probably running about 5 bar fuel pressure :oops:

4.5v sounds a bit high, mine is only 4 volts on the standard one... Must be something to do with your knock problem possibly ? I'll be fitting my Z32 so will be interesting to see what it reads. BTW, my maximum readings were at 7200 rpm, maybe you did yours higher ?

BTW, my Datalogit software has now been sent, so hopefully will get it in a few days ;) Something I didn't realise until now, the interface box has 4 analogue inputs so you can record 4 additional sensors like O2, EGT etc 8) 8) 8)
 

GINGA

Active Member
Mine was hitting the limiter at 7500 lol
Fuel pressure is standard, the afr gauge is reading about 12 (though i'm dubious of its readings :roll: ) and the max egt is 800 but haven't really played around with it much yet due to the knock sensor thang which i'm trying to fix as we speak but it keeps fcuking raining :evil:
 
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AJ4

Guest
lol, at least you have the chance to work on it, I work away from home all week and only get one day at home to play... ( mixed with shopping / DIY / domestic crap :( )
 

GINGA

Active Member
lol fixed exhaust and still getting high knock readings :cry: what knock readings are people getting at idle and when free revving :?:
Also what are peoples base timings set at eg checked with a timing light at idle :?: I set mine to match the 20 degrees on the pfc base timing map
 
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AJ4

Guest
I get around 4 or 5 det at idle ( out of 100 ), absolutely nothing. Before I cured my midrange high load problem it was a spike up to 50. Never seen it higher than that... Normally is around 10 - 12 when I'm hoofing it, pretty flat though.

Timing - sounds like you are now 20' advanced too much ! :shock: Hard to say what the problem is, you already know what mine is like, 40' as measured by my timing light and 40' in the map. I think you've got to be careful that you dont adjust the map while in the idle control loop ( with the tps connected ). Have a look at my map in that other thread and compare it to yours,
http://forum.gtiroc.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=20681

Just re-read your post, you shouldn't have to 'match' the timing light reading to the map reading, they should be the same ?? The map reading is just an electronic timing light sorta thing, so they should always be the same...

Also, you said you adjusted the timing to match the 20' in the base map, but if you look at mine, it starts at 30,32,40, there are no 20's ! I'm well confused now :D:D:D
 

GINGA

Active Member
My maps the same as that but it goes to 20 as soon as the revs drop below 1000rpm(idle) then jumps to that map as soon as revs come off idle speed think the map is for driving and the idle timing is a seperate setting :?
The crankshaft sensor (camshaft) is in the dizzy so any change to its position will effect the base timing but it won't show on the pfc map so if the base timing at idle speed below 1000rpm is set at 18 with the timing light and the pfc maps reads 20 the actual timing is at 18 and the dizzy is 2 degrees out of alignment if that makes sense lol
you could turn the dizzy until the timing with a timing light reads 10 but the power fc would still read 20 as there is no sensor on the crank to tell it otherwise the only way the ecu knows the piston is at tdc is by the sensor in the dizzy and if the dizzy is 2 degrees out of alignment the timing will be 2 degrees out, hence the timing with a timing light should match the timing on the power fc to make the power fc's base map settings correct
bloody difficult to explain really lol
Theres my power fc map sorry about the bad quality pic lol


Then heres my timing at idle


And heres my timing as soon as the engine comes off idle


As you can see the timing at idle bares no realation to the ign map lol
the fact that your power fc matchs the timing with a timing light must mean your dizzy is in the correct position.

On my knock readings the readings are probably higher as the engines not in the best condition lol either that or the det sensor is dodgy I've got a spare new one but tbh I really can't be arsed to fit the thing lol
 
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AJ4

Guest
ah cheers, I think I understand what you meant now. I've never seen the idle at 20' because its never idled below 1000 rpm. Seems like I got my timing ok then, I had it about 4 degrees advanced to take advantage of the WI with the standard ecu, but just to be on the safe side I set it back to 20' before I fitted the Apexi 8)

Well have a muck around with the timing and we can compare maps in a few weeks, to see who has totally f**ked up there car more..... :oops: lol

BTW, I'd get a new commander if I was you, the screen is all blurry on yours :D:D:D
 
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