RR result earlier this week
- Thread starter campbellju
- Start date
noriek2003
New Member
is this set up based on the biff tune roms ?
Okay I'll come clean over this one. I had meant to update people on 1st April but been busy lately. I've not lied but I thought it would be a funny little wind up as what it really proves is dyno's are always a guess of HP and never believe everything you read on the internet.
What you have to ask yourself though is that if this was 50hp less, would you even question it?
Here is what really happened:
What you have to ask yourself though is that if this was 50hp less, would you even question it?
Here is what really happened:
513hp!!!!!
I kid you not. Here's the story:
I have done all the ,mapping myself on the car but have decided I didn't want to take anymore risks on the local motorways and there ares ome things that can only be done on a RR so took the car to the place our NW GTIROC RR meet is at. TDI-North and Paul were absolutley fantastic and I would thoroughly recommend them in the future to anyone on here. We were able to swap notes on things and 100% of what we did when trying to map the cars was the same with knock and target AFR's. We decided it would be quicker just to use my AEM guage, my PC and me controlling it . He treated me like an equal so he controlled the dyno and I did the mapping. This was really refreshing rather than handing over the keys and you sit there for a couple of hours. Before we started, he explained I shouldn't be dissapointed as last year they updated the software so it now reads lower. (The recent NW GTIROC RR was after this upgrade so is still a good reference)
We warmed the engine and did the calibration run. We did a test run and it came up at 480hp!, he said it would be wheel spin and reading high and once the tyres gripped properly it would be fine. We did a proper run and it came up at 507hp
We both agreed that this was tosh so after much head scratching and checking of settings he couldn't find what was wrong. We did another run and it was similar so we decided to just get on with the mapping rather than working out what was wrong with his dyno settings.
There was a bit of Knock still just before peak torque, which we took out a bit of ignition and it dropped a bit, we took out some more but it didn't change so we did it again and still nothing. We put it back to the first change so the knock level is marginallly below rather than marginally above comfortable and left it at that.
We then went to the Peak HP area and this was so much easier/safer than blasting up and down motorways. To prove the point, at this point we got out, he had a fag and I had a cuppa, we chatted some more and then carried on. No drama, no police.
The peak HP dyno tuning was a piece of piss compared to on the road. We did the run again to check the benchmark. We then added 2degs across at the top end and the peak went up 7hp. We added another 2 degs and did another run and it only added 1 hp more so we both agreed that was not worth having and dropped it back to the last value.
We did one last run to check and it came at 513hp. Paul couldn't explain why as it was fine earlier in the day and also agreed this was complete rubbish for the turbo. He said he could frig the value to something more realistic by tweaking the dyno settings but ultimately there is no point as we agreed the tuning was correct whilst the willie swinging HP contest from a dyno print out can always be frigged to say whatever you want whether on purpose or by accident. I refernced Andy's dyno plot, duty and ignition and my guess is the car is likely producing 430-450hp. It could be nearer 450hp, it could be less but the way it delivers the power frankly I couldn't care.
Like Jerry Springer would say, " So what have we learned from this today":
1. Paul at TDI is a really top bloke, he charged me £79 quid including VAT for nearly 1.5Hours on the Dyno. If I had cash it would have been less but considering it is rrp £79 per hour he was very fair. He is a thoroughly top bloke and for us as enthusiatic amateur tuners he could be the way forward to do a thorough job but keeping costs down. I have given him my maps and tuning spreadsheet as I would like to support someone like him who is respectful to people like us to offer a cheap eficient service to other GTiR owners with PFC's.
2. Mapping on the road vs on the dyno, neither is perfect but both are needed. You cannot tune a car through knock alone. I had no problem with knock at the top end and I wonder how good a job you can really do without a dyno.
3. ATW Dyno plots are always an estimate so even when no one has anything to prove, they can be rubbish.
4. I've put a lot of effort into this but I'm pretty pleased with my mapping skills and getting to within 2 degs of the final map ain't bad.
5. All are welcome to use my semi-auto tuning spreadsheet (I've asked Ross to host it) it makes self mapping a lot easier.
So for all you disbelievers, here it is again in all its 513hp glory
:lol
Red is HP, Blue is Torque, Green is power ATW.... go figure
I kid you not. Here's the story:
I have done all the ,mapping myself on the car but have decided I didn't want to take anymore risks on the local motorways and there ares ome things that can only be done on a RR so took the car to the place our NW GTIROC RR meet is at. TDI-North and Paul were absolutley fantastic and I would thoroughly recommend them in the future to anyone on here. We were able to swap notes on things and 100% of what we did when trying to map the cars was the same with knock and target AFR's. We decided it would be quicker just to use my AEM guage, my PC and me controlling it . He treated me like an equal so he controlled the dyno and I did the mapping. This was really refreshing rather than handing over the keys and you sit there for a couple of hours. Before we started, he explained I shouldn't be dissapointed as last year they updated the software so it now reads lower. (The recent NW GTIROC RR was after this upgrade so is still a good reference)
We warmed the engine and did the calibration run. We did a test run and it came up at 480hp!, he said it would be wheel spin and reading high and once the tyres gripped properly it would be fine. We did a proper run and it came up at 507hp
There was a bit of Knock still just before peak torque, which we took out a bit of ignition and it dropped a bit, we took out some more but it didn't change so we did it again and still nothing. We put it back to the first change so the knock level is marginallly below rather than marginally above comfortable and left it at that.
We then went to the Peak HP area and this was so much easier/safer than blasting up and down motorways. To prove the point, at this point we got out, he had a fag and I had a cuppa, we chatted some more and then carried on. No drama, no police.
The peak HP dyno tuning was a piece of piss compared to on the road. We did the run again to check the benchmark. We then added 2degs across at the top end and the peak went up 7hp. We added another 2 degs and did another run and it only added 1 hp more so we both agreed that was not worth having and dropped it back to the last value.
We did one last run to check and it came at 513hp. Paul couldn't explain why as it was fine earlier in the day and also agreed this was complete rubbish for the turbo. He said he could frig the value to something more realistic by tweaking the dyno settings but ultimately there is no point as we agreed the tuning was correct whilst the willie swinging HP contest from a dyno print out can always be frigged to say whatever you want whether on purpose or by accident. I refernced Andy's dyno plot, duty and ignition and my guess is the car is likely producing 430-450hp. It could be nearer 450hp, it could be less but the way it delivers the power frankly I couldn't care.
Like Jerry Springer would say, " So what have we learned from this today":
1. Paul at TDI is a really top bloke, he charged me £79 quid including VAT for nearly 1.5Hours on the Dyno. If I had cash it would have been less but considering it is rrp £79 per hour he was very fair. He is a thoroughly top bloke and for us as enthusiatic amateur tuners he could be the way forward to do a thorough job but keeping costs down. I have given him my maps and tuning spreadsheet as I would like to support someone like him who is respectful to people like us to offer a cheap eficient service to other GTiR owners with PFC's.
2. Mapping on the road vs on the dyno, neither is perfect but both are needed. You cannot tune a car through knock alone. I had no problem with knock at the top end and I wonder how good a job you can really do without a dyno.
3. ATW Dyno plots are always an estimate so even when no one has anything to prove, they can be rubbish.
4. I've put a lot of effort into this but I'm pretty pleased with my mapping skills and getting to within 2 degs of the final map ain't bad.
5. All are welcome to use my semi-auto tuning spreadsheet (I've asked Ross to host it) it makes self mapping a lot easier.
So for all you disbelievers, here it is again in all its 513hp glory
Red is HP, Blue is Torque, Green is power ATW.... go figure
I asked on another forum to go figure and they suggested it was D-Lithium crystals from back to the future fame hence all the jokes above.
Since the big post above I refernced an old dyno plot when I had 380hp from a previous NW RR and upto 4Krpm they are broadly the same so its only common sense that tells you something isn't right.
The spec is roughly what it says on the readout but I run 750cc injectors. I have a custom 3" exhaust from turbo to tip and stumo spent flipping ages sorting my cam timing which has made a good difference. The car is not knock limited so I was able just to tune to optimum ignition. The AFR could be leaned out for more power but I prefer to have a safety margin.
I hope no one took offence at this little joke and willy swinging print outs aside, the car is running really well now. I've taken a couple of other owners out who also couldn't tell me how much HP it had but agreed it was between 400 and 500hp :doh: :lol: :lol:
Cheers,
Jim
Since the big post above I refernced an old dyno plot when I had 380hp from a previous NW RR and upto 4Krpm they are broadly the same so its only common sense that tells you something isn't right.
The spec is roughly what it says on the readout but I run 750cc injectors. I have a custom 3" exhaust from turbo to tip and stumo spent flipping ages sorting my cam timing which has made a good difference. The car is not knock limited so I was able just to tune to optimum ignition. The AFR could be leaned out for more power but I prefer to have a safety margin.
I hope no one took offence at this little joke and willy swinging print outs aside, the car is running really well now. I've taken a couple of other owners out who also couldn't tell me how much HP it had but agreed it was between 400 and 500hp :doh: :lol: :lol:
Cheers,
Jim
I'd be disappointed for you if you hadn't beaten me after all your efforts into that engine. ;-)
You should have got a print off!
You should have got a print off!
Fusion Ed
Active Member
So So true. Which is why i pretty much refuse to map cars above 200bhp/litre /400bhp total on the road. Its just to dangerous and time consuming compared to a dyno. The way I see it the only people who knock dynos as not being good to map on are the people who have not used one. They make life 1000x easier, controlled and safer.campbellju said:
Well done tho, good fun isn't it!
Fusion Ed
Active Member
I think the problem is there are so many different types of rolling road that some really cant do anything else that clever. The new ones D/D for example can and you can change the ramp speeds and hold speed/loads. Just most people don't and just do power runs after power runs, which wont show as already mentioned part throttle issues.