Maximum boost pressures

[boost]

Hi guys ive heard alot of people on these forums over a long period of time saying that they only use a bar of boost. Don't get me wrong there's lots of you running 1.8+..but i think these engines should be fine for more.. in my opinion..

But i was wondering these engines should be able to run them kind of pressures all day long shouldnt they?.. they are a strong engine in my opinion aslong obviously they are built or maintained properly..

i use to own a renault 5 turbo for years and that use to get 21lb of boost+ daily..and to be honest they arent a strong engine..but it didnt blow up..


ive seen a lot of evo's online running 30psi on the rollers or on the quarter mile strip and they dont blow up.


whats your thoughts guys?


keith

 

[red reading]

boost is pressure your on about not flow, you have a lot to learn as do many on these forums.............i'm not being nasty but it will take me to long to type out tech 101 on engine's and turbos.

 

[nimhbk]

alot of these cars are 20 years old,

I really have no clue what i am talking about, but running 1.8 bar i would say your stark bonkers mad, unless you have spent a truck load o cash like Red Above, smo and so on.

would you hang from a cliff on a twenty year old rope which has been used daily

 

[boost]

Red reading ,i take my hat of to you for the results that you achieved on the rolling road figures recently that i saw on your post.. really impressive pal you must know your stuff with cars and turbos and the like...But in all honesty mate where all human and you dont know it all and neither do i and im not after a lesson on things neither does the next person on these boards. Ive spent a long time of working with turbo cars and i was after a general chat on these boards with fellow old school lads who know there stuff and who was after a chat on the subject of engines etc.

No wonder these boards are crap on here.. not really a good friendly vibe or camaraderie,shame.. just my 2 pence worth..

no offence meant..

 

[red reading]

no offence taken except for you trying to take a snipe at me, there is just to much to type up......it is that extensive, you can run high boost pressure on our cars with suitable mapping myself and others have done it but the turbo does not like it (standard ones bearings fail quite easily), and you do not see any benifit from it really as the turbo cannot hold the pressure and it will make the inlet charge temps too high due to it not being in it's efficient range..........therefor even though you have the boost as you put it you don't have any power gain.................

The boards are not crap on here and there is camaraderie........there is a thing called google and a search function that you could use to learn try garrett turbo technolegies tech 101 for a start.................. if you work on turbo cars you should know about flow charts etc to be able to understand your car...............just my 2p's worth

 

[PobodY]

I think what you need to consider is that the way to make more power is to get more air (and fuel) into the engine: Boost alone is simply pressure, but that doesn't really mean anything if it's not going anywhere. Likewise flow is how much of the air you're moving... and you can move more of it at a higher pressure.

That's where you get the balancing act; higher boost is counter-productive if you can't move the air.

I don't claim to understand it all, but I've got a pretty good grasp on ideal gas theory so that's how I look at it. You've got pressure, volume, the amount of gas, and the temperature to consider.

EDIT: Too slow, but it sounds like Danny is saying the same thing just from a different perspective.

The Garrett website is actually quite helpful; the compressor maps are a little hard to read, but they do show things like the peak pressure of a turbo can't be sustained for more than a few RPM. However at about 80% of that they can hold it for quite a long time.

 

[markwashington]

I don't attempt to claim I have any knowledge about the scientific workings of turbos, boost, engine pressure etc, but I've been attempting to understand the cars so I don't have to rely on mechanics too much! As I understand it (and I'm happy to be proved wrong) there's a middle ground between boost level and workability on the r as there is on any turbo car. As redreading has said the weak point is the turbo. While standard turbos can take up to 1.4 bar, there won't be many people who do this, purely because it effects reliability. There are those who have run 1.8 bar on a standard turbo but I'm sure they'll tell you they didn't last long! I'd be interested in seeing someone really see how much can be wrung out of a standard setup. I've got a forged engine, 2mm headgasket, uprated turbo and all the ingredients to run 1.8 bar boost but I don't because I'm happy with 1.4 as the car is reliable, quicker than almost anything on the road and I don't need a gearbox upgrade. As for 1 bar, I suspect most people are happy with circa 300bhp and not having to worry too much about reliability.I don't think the forum is anything like as bad as it could be, before my time there was plenty of abuse by people like Odin, kieron and others. I've also met some really nice guys due to the car, I'm also looking forward to picking a fewbrains at the sprint day next week.

 

[boost]

No snipe's at any one pal. podoby, understanding all that fuel related subjects is an interesting subject and understanding it all comes with years of research.. Very interesting that subject.

 

[MarkTurbo]

you have a lot to learn as do many on these forums.............

To be fair you could have worded that reply better as it does make you sound like you know everything!

alot of these cars are 20 years old,

I really have no clue what i am talking about, but running 1.8 bar i would say your stark bonkers mad, unless you have spent a truck load o cash like Red Above, smo and so on.

I must be stark bonkers mad then, and 2 bar is the next target :shock:

 

[red reading]

To be fair you could have worded that reply better as it does make you sound like you know everything!



I must be stark bonkers mad then, and 2 bar is the next target :shock:

fair enough.

your gearbox will love 2 bar...........your running near that anyway ar'nt you?

 

[nimhbk]

To be fair if we all knew 1/10 of what Dan and Bob know half are cars wold not be half way to the scrap yard heaven?

And poor old Bob would be a few golden nuggets worse off

Not at all buttering you up Dan for a look at mine :-Deither lol

 

[Fast Guy]

Hi guys ive heard alot of people on these forums over a long period of time saying that they only use a bar of boost. Don't get me wrong there's lots of you running 1.8+..but i think these engines should be fine for more.. in my opinion..

But i was wondering these engines should be able to run them kind of pressures all day long shouldnt they?.. they are a strong engine in my opinion aslong obviously they are built or maintained properly..

i use to own a renault 5 turbo for years and that use to get 21lb of boost+ daily..and to be honest they arent a strong engine..but it didnt blow up..


ive seen a lot of evo's online running 30psi on the rollers or on the quarter mile strip and they dont blow up.


whats your thoughts guys?


keith

What's with the blowing up??
There's alot of people running a bar because in theory you can achieve it a a cost of £0. To make it more reliable will add a few £££ more in parts, but people are happy to stay there. To go higher you then start needing to spend money which some people don't have or don't want to. Simple as. Nothing to do with our engines blowing up. They can go 400+ on standard internals. Evos running 30psi will probably have been to Norris or Mark shead to name but two and I bet you they've had alot of money spent on them. Our owners in general are not rich.

 

[boost]

Hiya fast guy, Im certainly not rich and also theres nothing wrong with engines in cars blowing up, thats how we learn isnt it. The good old Trial and error method.

What i was saying was a good strong engine should be able to withstand a higher boost pressure safely. As the design of the engine is good and is strong compared to other engines i have seen or worked on etc.

Yes other cars that have been to the normal so called tuning companies (the well over priced and im not a fan and never have been to is tuning companies) dont get me wrong either on this subject, Im sure they are good at what they do but to the normal general guy,we could never afford these extortionate prices so thats why we do all the work ourselves in or garages or sheds etc.

yes thanks to bob and others he is doing a good thing in my opinion keeping these cars alive!!

mark, yes i wouldn't want to run the standard tubby at 1.4bar as i would expect it would break up and be in your intercooler in pieces within no time at all..Great to hear fellow members meeting up at the sprint day.

What sort of inlet temperatures are people getting when using raised boost pressures from there experience? and from what methods etc.. i.e. front mounted intercooler or tmic? And where are you taking/measuring it from?


The garrett turbo websites are interesting and also good to work things out as they have done there testings on there products to destruction im guessing.