Help! Not starting

[PobodY]

I'll run through the symptoms, but what I'm really looking for is confirmation and or suggestions:

• The drive to work is only ~5 minutes; when we take the car I don't think it runs long enough to put charge back into the battery.
• A few days ago I noticed it starting to get slower to turn-over.
• I went to start it yesterday; no dice.
• Battery out and left on charge until the charger said it's done... then left it for another few hours.
• I put the battery back in; all the electrics seem to come on, but no start (the dash just goes black until I release the key).

So, is there a more serious problem; a knackered starter for example?
Is it more likely that the battery in the alarm is flat and acting like a giant capacitor every time I try to throw the starter?

I've looked at as many of the fuses and fusible links as I can, but they all seem fine; none of them seem to be specifically for the starter though.

I'm supposed to be taking the wife to a dental appointment tomorrow, but at this stage I'll just be paying for a taxi. :doh:

I've hooked the charger back up for now. - I'm hoping that will put some juice in the alarm battery, and maybe that will solve the problem.

 

[The Doc]

Starter motor, dodgy earths, dodgy connection on the live side. I would start by shorting the starter solinoid cable to the battery live with the ignition on.....if it doesn't turn over or even click then starter. If you get funny fish like smells then its cables somewhere......make sure you use a decent size bit of cable to short the starter.

 

[PobodY]

My gut says bad connection rather than the starter; it's not even clicking when I turn the key. - I had a go at cleaning the terminals, but it doesn't seem to have made a difference.

Getting underneath and at the starter is not something I'm going to be able to do until the weekend, so I suspect it's time to book a taxi.

 

[fubar andy]

Starter motor, dodgy earths, dodgy connection

As above, check all your earths. I know Geoff was on about it with me few months back and I've been going over them all cleaning them up etc.

Worth a shot, if not helps the overall maintenance of the car. I noticed a difference driving lights quality and my AFM running.

Also is it possibly time for a new battery?

 

[campbellju]

Dead battery? its forever needing to be charged on your car. What's the voltage before and when starting?

 

[red reading]

Pobody look up the sketch with sir john Cleese thrashing his car with a stick (film was called "Clockwork" or the like) when it wouldn't start, well funny!

 

[grim_d]

Pobody look up the sketch with sir john Cleese thrashing his car with a stick (film was called "Clockwork" or the like) when it wouldn't start, well funny!

Fawlty Towers. Brilliant.

 

[shroom]

. If you get funny fish like smells then its cables

Na na fozzi tha smell in ma pulsa is da skets I pick up frm maccies cuz m carz wel fast wit da bad boi 5" mongoosies and da 599 bhpizzles mor dan tha loozer fennel!

 

[vss irvine]

Another item to check is ignition switch barrel.

 

[PobodY]

I don't think it's the battery. - It makes no difference if I swap it for the one in the Hyundai, nor if I hook-up the booster pack.
I still think it could be the battery in the alarm.

Poor earth is a possibility; enough current flowing for all the lights and stereo etc, but not enough to turn the starter. - I'll try cleaning them up, but it's not going to happen before I need the car today.

Ignition switch is also a possibility; just because I can't even hear the solenoid click or the motor try to turn.

Right about now I wish I'd sorted the windscreen on the Amica so that it could pass an MOT and I could tax it. :doh:

 

[campbellju]

Simple stuff first, have you measured the voltage on your battery yet? Your booster pack is exactly that, if your battery isn't holding charge you still may not have the guts to turn it. Your battery has been on it's way out for the last year.

I don't know how good your Amica battery is if it's been sitting around too.

Starter could be on it's way out, give it a tap or put the car in gear and rock it forward and back a bit.

Poor earth wouldn't help but what you describe sounds like a failure rather than a weakness. They only take 5 minutes to clean with a bot of sand paper.

It could be a wiring fault, immobiliser or relay failure.

 

[PobodY]

Voltage across the battery is 12.6v (more like 13.3v when it's just been on charge). - When turning the key the drop is to 11.9v, which says to me that circuits are closing; there's enough draw that if I hold it on the stereo will reset to factory defaults.

The battery from the Hyundai is about the same, but I didn't measure the drop when I turned the key; just the charge between the terminals. - Given that it still cranks the Hyundai (and the cables feel warm when I try to jump-start from it), I don't think this battery is also knackered. I'm surprised that the Nissan has killed a battery in less that three years, but it's not implausible.

I tried hitting the starter with a hammer, but it's not easy to get at so it's probably just the solenoid I've been hitting. - No change.

I think it's a failure too, but I'll be damned if I can work out what has failed. Low charge normally results in it trying to turn or making that "click click" noise as the solenoid closes the connection to the starter. - This is completely silent, turn the key and the dashboard goes black. Stop and the lights come back on.
Could be that it's not the battery that has been dying, it's the starter; maybe it's just been taking more and more current to get it to move?

I'll spend the long weekend either trying to extract the starter or shorting it to the battery so see if it kicks.

 

[BMCC]

Sounds very similar to what happened to me. Cranked slowly but just enough to fire up, then would only fire up with the aid of a booster (once) then wouldn't turn over at all. Starter motor was goosed. EL-22 (940-1380) service manual volume 2 gives a trouble shooting guide for the starter motor.

 

[PobodY]

Thanks; sounds like confirmation of my worst fear. - I did look in the manual, but it doesn't tell you which fuses etc to check.

 

[BMCC]

There is a 10A fuse in box next just down from the steering wheel. Can't remember which one is for the starter motor though. It is on the left hand side of the box AFAIK.

 

[PobodY]

I've got a VSS Irvine fuse-box cover, so it should be easy enough to find. - I thought I'd checked them all, but there's no harm in pulling them all out and double-checking before getting under the car.

 

[red reading]

Have you got a good engine earth to battery George?

 

[PobodY]

I thought I did, but the first thing I'll do is take it off and clean the connections on it.

 

[PobodY]

Right. Taken the earths off the body and the gearbox and cleaned them up with a touch of degreaser and some wet-and-dry; still no dice.

What's the best way to get the starter off? - I've had a look from underneath, but the transfer case is in the way. From the top the inlet mainfold blocks my view.
I'm currently trying to do it by feel, but can't work-out which are the two bolts holding it on. - I've found a couple that seem to be ~6mm, but figure those are way to small to be holding the starter to the gearbox.

Looking at pages EL-35 and 36 of the service manual it sounds like I should take the inlet manifold off then remove the rear engine mount. - Can it be done with less effort than that; seems like it's mainly because of the brackets that have already been removed?

 

[whytie]

Do you have y bracket still fitted? If so it's very tight, you need to losen the bracket and squeeze it by. No need to remove inlet.

I f no y bracket it's a 10 min job