Fusion Ed
Active Member
Ok basically you would want an OMEM600 for that. It may be possible to connect to the crank angle sensor since omex do have support for the 200sx cas, if not you would need to ditch the distributor (which you may want to anyway) and then go to wasted spark with coil packs (bye bye ignition problems), with either the omex CAS or have the cas marks machined into the pully (if thats viable)
The OMEM600 is a speed density when in a turbo application so you would also ditch the MAF and install a pressure and air temp sensor on the inlet manifold/pipework.
Omex retail price for the OMEM600 is £640
The semi assembled loom is £58.60.
For the GTIR you will also need the aux wire pack which is £8.80
Air temp sensor which is £17.60
And the 3 bar map sensor which is £105
The coil packs I don't have a price for as I have used the oem ones for cars I have fitted these ecus on before, however you would probably need some for the gtir, you don't have to use the omex ones. Indeed if for example you can get 200sx coil packs to fit you could get the omex to run an external coil pack driver such as that from a 200sx and configure this to drive all 4 coils in a wasted spark configuration. I did this recently with a CGA3DE Micra turbo conversion.
Software and lead is usually supplied free. As would be a basic base map, which should be ok to start the car but will need a full tune other than that, better prices can be quoted for on a complete system. As I said the above are the standard Omex retail prices.
The OMEM600 is a speed density when in a turbo application so you would also ditch the MAF and install a pressure and air temp sensor on the inlet manifold/pipework.
Omex retail price for the OMEM600 is £640
The semi assembled loom is £58.60.
For the GTIR you will also need the aux wire pack which is £8.80
Air temp sensor which is £17.60
And the 3 bar map sensor which is £105
The coil packs I don't have a price for as I have used the oem ones for cars I have fitted these ecus on before, however you would probably need some for the gtir, you don't have to use the omex ones. Indeed if for example you can get 200sx coil packs to fit you could get the omex to run an external coil pack driver such as that from a 200sx and configure this to drive all 4 coils in a wasted spark configuration. I did this recently with a CGA3DE Micra turbo conversion.
Software and lead is usually supplied free. As would be a basic base map, which should be ok to start the car but will need a full tune other than that, better prices can be quoted for on a complete system. As I said the above are the standard Omex retail prices.
Ed, do you think the Omex air temp sensor could be modded/used in my set up so I can run the map sensor only and ditch the MAF
C
Crazy
Guest
My 700cc injectors are hitting 93% duty on the Power FC Pro using the GT3071/0.86 with the 4 inch inlet, so I am thinking of upgrading to 800cc's or 1000cc's and upping the boost to 1.8bar may be even 1.9 but my tuner has said:
"To honest though I don’t really think you are going to gain much by increasing the boost as you are going to create excessive back pressure in the turbine housing , this will cause detonation ,and lower the VE , so we will need to retard the ignition to stop it , this will then lose you the power you have just gained by upping the boost ! !
In most cases once you get to the back pressure level of the turbine ( with integral wastegate turbos ), you are better of keeping more ignition advance , rather than increasing the boost pressure"
I have the full 3 inch Janspeed elbow & system so I do not understand why I would creating too much back pressure????
"To honest though I don’t really think you are going to gain much by increasing the boost as you are going to create excessive back pressure in the turbine housing , this will cause detonation ,and lower the VE , so we will need to retard the ignition to stop it , this will then lose you the power you have just gained by upping the boost ! !
In most cases once you get to the back pressure level of the turbine ( with integral wastegate turbos ), you are better of keeping more ignition advance , rather than increasing the boost pressure"
I have the full 3 inch Janspeed elbow & system so I do not understand why I would creating too much back pressure????
Fusion Ed
Active Member
Ahh b***** just had a massive edit, and clicked cancel instead of save...
Again...
Steve, Yes that's quite likely. should be able to do that.
Crazy
The 3071 flow maps are good for over 2 bar. What this means to you is that if the exhaust is nice and free flow which it should be (relatively speaking) the exhaust turbine should be able to deal with the increased flow fine, as should the standard waste gate. In my opinion anyway there should be room for more. But its very important that the egt temps (which will show any problems on the way) are kept under close scrutiny.
Again...
Steve, Yes that's quite likely. should be able to do that.
Crazy
The 3071 flow maps are good for over 2 bar. What this means to you is that if the exhaust is nice and free flow which it should be (relatively speaking) the exhaust turbine should be able to deal with the increased flow fine, as should the standard waste gate. In my opinion anyway there should be room for more. But its very important that the egt temps (which will show any problems on the way) are kept under close scrutiny.
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C
Crazy
Guest
Thanks for the quick reply Micra Ed but I run the GT3071 not the GT3076!!!
, sorry!
C
Crazy
Guest
A bit more:
"Every turbo gets to a point were you are wasting your time increasing boost ( especially internal wastegate types ), and I personally feel that 1.8 bar , certainly 2.0 bar is going to create more problems ( back pressure , heat , boost spike etc ) than it will give any worthwhile results . The boost levels and power figures you have quoted prove exactly what I am talking about , 1.4 @ 395hp is a good result , everything is within its working range , but 2.3 @ 450hp is a very poor effort for that sort of boost pressure , this is because the extra boost is causing far greater back pressure and heat , so the gains are getting less. Any turbo can make the boost , but not many can hold this level through the high rpm range.
You have to take into account the whole package not just what the turbo can do, the turbo compressor can flow x amount of air, but can the cylinder head??? Also if the turbo creates excessive back pressure the heat will back up into the cylinder which will give a lower VE, as the engine cannot pass the air through it, this will not show very well on an EGT guage as all the heat is inside the cylinder, not in the exhaust where you are measuring, so you could have low EGT, but still det a piston"
Starting to make sense....................slowly but what do you guys think???
(I personally want to try 1.8bar)
"Every turbo gets to a point were you are wasting your time increasing boost ( especially internal wastegate types ), and I personally feel that 1.8 bar , certainly 2.0 bar is going to create more problems ( back pressure , heat , boost spike etc ) than it will give any worthwhile results . The boost levels and power figures you have quoted prove exactly what I am talking about , 1.4 @ 395hp is a good result , everything is within its working range , but 2.3 @ 450hp is a very poor effort for that sort of boost pressure , this is because the extra boost is causing far greater back pressure and heat , so the gains are getting less. Any turbo can make the boost , but not many can hold this level through the high rpm range.
You have to take into account the whole package not just what the turbo can do, the turbo compressor can flow x amount of air, but can the cylinder head??? Also if the turbo creates excessive back pressure the heat will back up into the cylinder which will give a lower VE, as the engine cannot pass the air through it, this will not show very well on an EGT guage as all the heat is inside the cylinder, not in the exhaust where you are measuring, so you could have low EGT, but still det a piston"
Starting to make sense....................slowly but what do you guys think???
(I personally want to try 1.8bar)
Rishi
Still waiting on some shims!
Crazy said:
You're missing the point with that one mate..
The GT3071 has a massive efficiency range. 400bhp @ 1.4bar, 450bhp @ 2.3bar. Yes its a small increase in power but the point of this turbo is for early high flow rate @ 1.4bar and then for it to be efficient at high boost so that you generate massive amounts of torgue. Its the Torque that will give you a quick car.
Remember the power will just define how far you can push your car through its rev range. The torque will define how quickly you do this.
500bhp GTiR - 11sec 1/4miles
300bhp WRC - 10sec 1/4miles
Reason is that the WRC car runs not only very light with a short ratio box but it runs high compression and massive amounts of torque.
With the GT3071R @ 2.3bar and with correct setup there are possibilities to run 500lb.ft easy with some increadible scool times!
Rishi
C
Crazy
Guest
Thanks for taking time to reply Rishi, that was the response I received from my tuner/engine builder and I just wanted to see what you guys thought!!!
300bhp WRC - 10sec 1/4miles :lol: :lol: Nothing but PR bullsh1t, they tested the Hyundai wrc car at santa pod driven by Alister Mcrae iirc, got a amazing 12.5 1/4 :lol:RishiGTiR said:
There also not that light iirc they have a minimum weight of 1300kg and the wrc teams are always moaning that the 2l na fwd cars have a unfair advantage on tarmac as they are a fair bit lighter(1000kg), even though they had less power and less than 1/2 the torque.
Whoever makes up these figures must get them straight out of Max power :roll:
rossdj1983
New Member
is there a limit on tourqe for a wrc car?
Rishi
Still waiting on some shims!
I watched a demo video of the Focus WRC car a long while back and it was pulling some seriously quick 0 - 60 times. The quote of 10sec 1/4miles came from a reputable mapper!.deisel weasel said:
Besides it was meant as an example to show the benefit of torque.
Rishi
skiddusmarkus
Active Member
I saw the program you're on about Paul and was surprised at the slow times.I think maybe it was some glitch as if you run that amount of torque and the light weight of the cars(bear in mind they will be adding ballast to meet regs,this can be removed)and they'll easily hit 10s.
modern diesels can be tampered with to get very impressive torque figures, that doesn't mean they're going to be that quick in the real world, they'll tow caravans well but theres more to it than just having xxx amount of torque, its where you have that torque and for how long thats important.RishiGTiR said:
Im not going to bother going into how bhp/torque and rpms relate to anything in the real world as i'll only be told i'm a know it all..lol
anyways... my much referred to old 306dt produced 137bhp peak power and 217lbft @ 3800rpm but it was game over by about 4500rpm tops, compare that to a 306 gti-6 ,167. bhp peak power and 145 lbft @ 5500rpm...no prizes for guessing which one was alot quicker, even in standard form...
p.s it wasn't run on funny smelling oily stuff..lol
another example is a feature they did in track and race cars, petrol turbo golf race car against diesel turbo golf race car, deisel car had higher torque, petrol car went round track quicker at all points when the data was over layed
as for rally cars :
the stats for 2001 impreza wrc
# 200 kph top speed
# 0-100 kph 3.5 sec (WRC Subaru 2001)
# 0-400 m 13.19 sec
pretty pants 1/4 mile time, they're not designed to go drag racing, simple as that, gearing is wrong, power delivery is wrong, having a stupid 34mm restrictor on the turbo is wrong.