Front Speakers

[gunmetalgtir]

I had a sub in my last Pulsar, and your right they do weigh a lot. That's why I've got everything in my run about, it's only a wee 106 so it doesn't matter about the extra weight! :lol:

 

[GTiRlover]

It's cool mate, this is a discussion forum! and that is what we are doing! :lol:

I would agree with that! You have both put forward good arguments in justifying your claims which makes for good reading I now have a good few things to think about! I hadn't considered tweeters previously but seeing as though they weigh next to nothing I will look into getting a set wired up with the speakers...

Just to clarify what you have both said:lol: Where would be the best place to mount the tweeters, in the footwells or on the dash? Also maybe sounding stupid here but what size are the standard speakers in the front?

Thanks again

 

[youngsyp]

Just to clarify what you have both said:lol: Where would be the best place to mount the tweeters, in the footwells or on the dash? Also maybe sounding stupid here but what size are the standard speakers in the front?

Thanks again

The best place to mount the tweeters, to get the best sound stage and time alignment, would be the foot wells.
If you look at the foot wells, there's a little 'shelf' just at the front bottom corner of the door frame. That area would be idea.
You'll just need to aim them at your head then. If you get it right, the music should seem to be coming from just in front of the windscreen, around the middle.

If you mount them on the dash, not only will the distances between each tweeter and your respective ear be very different but, the distance between the tweeter and mid range driver will arguable be too great too.

Of course, if you're just looking for loud music and aren't interested in the specifics, mount the tweeters anywhere. ;-)

And there are no stupid questions bud !

The standard speakers are an odd size but, 6.5" mid range drivers should fit. Just make sure you get a good seal around the mating surface and ideally, sound deaden the door or, at least the panel the speakers mount to.

Have a look at the Alpine SPS-171 component set. They're a great value, entry/mid level set that reportedly, sound very good.

 

[GTiRlover]

Thanks youngsyp, I'll follow your advice I'm not really an ICE man but I would definitely like to have as best a sound as possible coming from the speakers I do have. The tweeters sound like they provide a much better sound quality without the hassle of an amp...

What exactly do the tweeters do? Am I right in saying that they add to the high frequency of the sound?

 

[youngsyp]

What exactly do the tweeters do? Am I right in saying that they add to the high frequency of the sound?

The tweeters are just dedicated high frequency (from say 2khz upwards) speakers.
They're small as the diaphragms have to move so fast, from 2 thousand times a second upwards to beyond 20 thousand times and second, if we use 2khz as the lowest frequency they reproduce.
Almost any size speaker could reproduce high frequency sound but, the frequency response will tend to tail off very quickly as, the speaker diaphragm simply can't move fast enough, to make the sound. That's why, in a decent sound system, you'll have a large speaker to reproduce bass and sub bass (a subwoofer), a smaller diameter speaker to reproduce mid bass and mid range sound (a midrange speaker) and a small speaker to reproduce high frequency sound (a tweeter). A subwoofer will typically reproduce sound from 20hz to 150 hz, a mid bass/range speaker from 100hz - 7khz and a tweeter from 2khz to 20khz and beyond. And thing above or below this range, isn't really needed as, the human ear can only really process (hear) frequencies from 20hz to 20khz.

Finally, the placement and aim of a speaker becomes more important, the higher up the frequency range, the sound it produces as, the sound will become more directional so, the ear can perceive more easily, where the sound is coming from. That's why it isn't important where you mount a sub woofer but, it is important where you mount a tweeter, in relation to your ear.

 

[GTiRlover]

youngsyp you certainly know your stuff! I'm not interested in fitting a sub because it would add unnecessary weight and take up too much boot space. I would like to get some good quality speakers tho... Can you recommend some good tweeters?

 

[gunmetalgtir]

MB quartz, Alpine, Focal, Inifity. Any of these should be fine, Infinity entry level stuff is quite good for the money. But it really depends on much you are willing to spend?

 

[GTiRlover]

To be honest with you I'm only going to buy speakers once so want to buy a good quality set. How much would a good set of speakers cost?

 

[gunmetalgtir]

IMO about £100 should get you a good set.

http://www.caraudiocentre.co.uk/product_m-infinity-kappa-65-7cs_p-22413.htm


http://www.caraudiocentre.co.uk/product_m-alpine-spr-17s_p-22579.htm

This was the first site I came along so you may be able to get them a bit cheaper.

I'm sure youngsyp would have a few sets he could recommend as well! :-D

 

[GTiRlover]

Thanks for the links Very useful that both sets include tweeters. I know wiring is also important when installing speakers and other components of a sound system. Do you have any opinions on particular wiring cables?

Thanks again for your help

 

[deslynam]

Get the cable from Maplin, they do some half decent grade stuff without it costing as much as anywhere like Halfords - don't really need it to be fancy branded either TBH.

Before you install components like those, play around with the position of the tweeter itself. As someone said before, it can sometimes sound rubbish if you put them in the wing mirror mount -blanking plates because they're so far away from the main speaker.

Your best bet is to audition as many as you can before buying. Preferably listening to a CD of your own that you know well enough, and with all EQ settings on the head-unit they use being set to flat/0 settings.
IMO, if you've got an Alpine HU, stay away from their cheaper range of speakers unless you like your music to sound "bright" (i.e. a bit too much treble) to start with.

 

[youngsyp]

IMO about £100 should get you a good set.

http://www.caraudiocentre.co.uk/product_m-infinity-kappa-65-7cs_p-22413.htm


http://www.caraudiocentre.co.uk/product_m-alpine-spr-17s_p-22579.htm

This was the first site I came along so you may be able to get them a bit cheaper.

I'm sure youngsyp would have a few sets he could recommend as well! :-D

To be honest, I like both those sets.
If you going to go for an Alpine set up though, I'd go for the older version of the set above. I've read numerous good reviews of them and, you can get them for around £65 delivered, if you look around.

The Infinity set above though would be ideal. If you look at the sensitivity, it's very high at 95 db. That means they'll be very easy for your headunit to drive so, you'll get more volume out of them, compared to the Alpine set.
Their frequency response seems to be wider too and, they come with a very good quality crossover.
Imho, the only minus point is that they don't come with a mounting adaptor for the midbass unit but, that's no biggy. You could just make sure the driver has a good seal, by applying a bead of silicon sealant around the mounting edge of the driver. Or, if you Dynamat the mounting panel, that will give a good seal too.

As Deslynam has said, try Maplin for cable. This stuff is good: http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ModuleNo=50&doy=18m9 although, the component sets often come with their own cable.

Personally, I solder all my connections too but, that's not to everyones taste.

 

[gunmetalgtir]

I forgot to mention!

You need to watch out for the mounting depth of the speakers as the windows may clip the back of the speakers. I had to make very small MDF spacers and trim the inside of the door cards slightly to get the speakers to fit on my last R.

You'll also need to drill new holes for the speakers as well, it won't take long to do all this though as it's quite straight forward!

 

[GTiRlover]

deslynam- thanks for the recommendation of using Maplin cables Tying the speakers out first is a good idea, I'll probably go to a shop and have a listen to the speakers first and then see if I can get them cheaper online... Also the word of warning about the Alpine HU is appreciated! Luckily tho I have a Kenwood HU so should avoid that problem...

youngsyp- yeah I was siding with the Infinity because of the sensitivity. However the Infinity set have a peak power of 270 watts compared with 330 watts of the Alpine. Would the difference in peak power be that noticeable? If the Alpine speakers are not as sensitive would the increase in peak power be negligible, especially as the Infinity set will be easier for my HU to drive... Just thinking aloud there really:lol: Is the midbass unit the square thing, what exactly does this do and where would be the best place to mount it? Prefereably out of sight.

Thanks

 

[GTiRlover]

I forgot to mention!

You need to watch out for the mounting depth of the speakers as the windows may clip the back of the speakers. I had to make very small MDF spacers and trim the inside of the door cards slightly to get the speakers to fit on my last R.

You'll also need to drill new holes for the speakers as well, it won't take long to do all this though as it's quite straight forward!

Thanks for the tip! What depth of speakers do you think would be best? The Infinity have a top-mount depth: 1-15/16". Is that too deep or would they simply fit straight in without any hassle?

 

[gunmetalgtir]

To be honest I can't remember!

The Infinity ones were the speakers I had in my last R but it was the older model. It took a little bit of work to make them fit, but it's not that tricky! I mounted the crossover boxes behind the door card as I didn't want them to be seen. If you were a bit closer I would have fitted them for you but I think that your a bit too far away to drive up here just to get speakers fitted! :lol:

 

[GTiRlover]

Whats a 6-7 hour drive between friends eh?:lol: Thanks for the offer tho, very good of you! If the crossover boxes can be mounted between the doorcards then thats where they'll go. I'm not a fan of loads of aftermarket parts cluttering up what is a beutifully crafted interior...

 

[youngsyp]

youngsyp- yeah I was siding with the Infinity because of the sensitivity. However the Infinity set have a peak power of 270 watts compared with 330 watts of the Alpine. Would the difference in peak power be that noticeable? If the Alpine speakers are not as sensitive would the increase in peak power be negligible, especially as the Infinity set will be easier for my HU to drive... Just thinking aloud there really:lol: Is the midbass unit the square thing, what exactly does this do and where would be the best place to mount it? Prefereably out of sight.

Thanks

Where speakers are concerned, ignore anything to do with power measured in watts, especially 'peak power'. The only wattage power you should be vaguely interested in for any reason is RMS (route mean squared), into 4 ohms usually for mid range and tweeters. This is a no bullshit measurement that you can use as a reference between speakers and amps etc...


The reason I say "vaguely interested in" is, not even RMS wattage means much in the grand scheme of things. You should only look at any wattage figure for a speaker as an input rating, nothing else. Speakers don't produce sound output in watts, that's an electrical measurement, speakers produce sound output in dB's (decibels).
With that in mind, if you have an amp/head unit that can output 50 watts per channel RMS, a speaker that has a rating (input) of anything from 35 RMS upwards will be fine.
With the speakers mentioned above (Infinity), they will take a maximum input of 90 watts RMS so, your head unit shouldn't be able to over drive them. And because they're more sensitive than the the Alpines, (by 8dB, a logorithmic measurement so, roughly 8 times), you'll get a higher output level at any given head unit volume level, compared to the Alpines.

I shouldn't be too worried with over driving them either as, you're much more likely to kill a speaker with too much distortion (usually from amps that aren't man enough for the sound level you require) than too much input power.

As for the items in the picture, the large speaker will be the mid bass/range driver, the little one, the tweeter and the rectangular box, the crossover unit !
As for what the the crossover does.... Basically, it splits up the sound frequencies coming from your amp/HU, and sends them to the right speaker. If you didn't have this, the tweeters would pop very quickly as, they're only designed to re-produce high freqency sound and, can't handle the low frequency stuff.
The reason the Infinity on is good, is because it has 18dB per octave circuits so, the cut off points are much more abrupt and precise.

 

[GTiRlover]

Thanks for the detailed reply! You have put things into perspective for me I don't know what RMS channels my headunit has because it is fairly old now but it was good in its day I know that so am confident in will be able to power the Infinity speakers no problem...

Thanks again for the advice, I havn't a clue when it comes to ICE!...

 

[deslynam]

Ahh yes - I forgot to mention that you'll almost certainly need a spacer!!

When I upgraded mine, I just gave the car to some ICE installers and had the doors dynamat'd, cables upgraded & speakers fitted. Partly because I knew i'd need a spacer to fit & also because I didn't want the hassle of pratting around with the door cards & the dynamat myself (ok, i was just being lazy, and didn't have the tools to sort the spacer out myself!).