Elecrical Issue - Cannot Start Car

[antgtir]

The R lives again.

It turns out that the main electrical feed to the ignition block at the steering column had a drain of approx 0.5v from the battery to the block. So it seems there is a problem between those points.

To remove all possibilities of this re-occuring, a new positive line was routed to the ignition block. This removed the voltage drop and has solved the starting / flashing problem etc.

It seems the voltage drop associated with flashing your lights is large enough coupled with an unknown voltage drop along the line is enough to stop the car.

On with the preparations for the oc trackday.

Ant.

 

[fubar andy]

Good to hear you've diagnosed the problem! :thumb:

 

[geoff pine]

The R lives again.

It turns out that the main electrical feed to the ignition block at the steering column had a drain of approx 0.5v from the battery to the block. So it seems there is a problem between those points.

To remove all possibilities of this re-occuring, a new positive line was routed to the ignition block. This removed the voltage drop and has solved the starting / flashing problem etc.

It seems the voltage drop associated with flashing your lights is large enough coupled with an unknown voltage drop along the line is enough to stop the car.

On with the preparations for the oc trackday.

Ant.

Did you work this out by your self :thumb: clever sod:lol:

 

[antgtir]

Did you work this out by your self :thumb: clever sod:lol:

I had the mature heads of my dad and uncle :lol: to help me, but ill take all the glory no problem with that lol :lol:

Its amazing how such a little change in voltage can make a huge difference. I still have the same feelings towards electrics though, i hate them :lol:

Ant.

 

[antgtir]

Good to hear you've diagnosed the problem! :thumb:

Cheers, looking forward to the track day now, got alot to sort though as per usual :lol:

How's your R looking? on track?

Ant.

 

[antgtir]

Its not looking good again for the track day.

Over the weekend ive experienced another electrical fault. This time the car turns over however with no spark or fueling. Ive checked all fuses, they are ok. Ive checked all relay's they are ok.

Ive changed the coil for a known working one, no change. Checked continuity of the rotor arm thats ok, dizzy and leads are all ok.

Voltage to the coil is good, voltage out of the coil not good.

Seems to me that maybe something is interupting the flow of current i.e. ECU or immobiliser not allowing the flow.

Ive bitten the bullet and waiting for a return phone call from an auto elec. Fingers crossed the guy will be able to sort it before next tuesday.

Ant.

 

[Fusion Ed]

I was going to say that 0.5v would not be enough to stop it. A car will run down to about 9-10v under light load conditions. If you have an immob bypass it and try again.

You should get an ECU diagram and pin test the ECU to see whats going on with the power supplies (there are a few) and see whats going on there.

 

[pulsarboby]

ive just sent you something to try that causes your symptoms but posted it on trackday thread, give that a try!

 

[Aimee]

Thanks Bob

 

[antgtir]

I was going to say that 0.5v would not be enough to stop it. A car will run down to about 9-10v under light load conditions. If you have an immob bypass it and try again.

You should get an ECU diagram and pin test the ECU to see whats going on with the power supplies (there are a few) and see whats going on there.

The voltage (ona low battery of approx 12v) into the coil was 11.6v the voltage out when cranked dropped to approx 8v which is never going to jump the plug gap and create a spark to ignite fuel.

The problem i think is that there is something thats shorted either inside or outside that has effectively disabled the ignition and fuel pump side of things. I smelt the electrical burning before the engine stopped so somethings frazzled

Going to re-check the ecu and make sure terminals there haven't shorted.

Strange that no fuses have blown.

The problem occurred whilst under high loading from main beam.

Ill keep going but its not looking too good for the OC trackday, i think R's have a sick sense of humour:der: the saga continues.

Ant.

 

[antgtir]

ive just sent you something to try that causes your symptoms but posted it on trackday thread, give that a try!

Cheers Bob, ill take a look at that this evening.

Ant.

 

[campbellju]

Do you need a battery charger anyway? I've got an ECU spare if you need it but they are quite robust. Do you have an immobiliser fitted? Is it still operational.

 

[Aimee]

Do you need a battery charger anyway? I've got an ECU spare if you need it but they are quite robust. Do you have an immobiliser fitted? Is it still operational.

We've tried another ECU on it and it doesnt seem to make any difference. Yep, ants dad has about 20 battery chargers :lol:

There is an immobiliser and its still working fine

 

[Fusion Ed]

The voltage (ona low battery of approx 12v) into the coil was 11.6v the voltage out when cranked dropped to approx 8v which is never going to jump the plug gap and create a spark to ignite fuel.

Yes it will. Ignition systems are designed for this when cranking.

The problem i think is that there is something thats shorted either inside or outside that has effectively disabled the ignition and fuel pump side of things. I smelt the electrical burning before the engine stopped so somethings frazzled

Going to re-check the ecu and make sure terminals there haven't shorted.

Strange that no fuses have blown.

The problem occurred whilst under high loading from main beam.

Ill keep going but its not looking too good for the OC trackday, i think R's have a sick sense of humour:der: the saga continues.

Ant.

Look through the wiring diagram, it really wont be that hard. The ECU really doesn't need much to run. Just check all the power is at the ecu as it should be and go from there.

 

[Fast Guy]

Have you tried the ecu relay?

 

[antgtir]

I checked the plug that Bob suggested but never tested the relay at the ecu tbh.

The auto electrician is taking a look tomorrow so im hoping the man is a genious and finds the problem straight away, im able to sort it, fit my new brakes and ill be as ready as i can be for the trackday. Ill be extremely gutted if im not able to take part after all the prep etc.

Thanks to all for the suggestions so far. Ill post up if we find anything tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

Ant.

 

[antgtir]

Well the culprit i fear has noy yet been found, however it does seem to be contained for the time being if i dont flash my lights.

The auto electrician found that the ecu had burnt out. A small diode, strangely connected to the fuel pump wiring had burnt out. Luckily i had a second that can be used.

Im ok for the trackday it seems but will need to carry on searching and possibly think about either running new lines for various applications or fit a different wiring loom.

The auto electrician also found that the alarm installers had connected wiring to the wrong car wiring so that wouldnt help in terms of immobiliser etc.

Id like to thank Geoff P for recommending the auto electrician as the guy is a top man, willing to travel out of his way. He's also looked at getting an R at one stage however went for a scooby, needless to say he sold it pretty soon after :lol: I would definately recommend him to anyone with elec problems, cheers Geoff

On with the brakes now :lol:

Ant.

 

[fubar andy]

On with the brakes now :lol:

Ant.

Glad that’s sorted :-D

I've got issues with my brakes now, ripped my alternator belt to shreds tonight and in the process somehow now oils has sprayed all under the engine...

Nothings ever simple eh?

 

[antgtir]

Glad that’s sorted :-D

I've got issues with my brakes now, ripped my alternator belt to shreds tonight and in the process somehow now oils has sprayed all under the engine...

Nothings ever simple eh?

Cheers Andy, just glad ill be able to make it to the trackday *touch's all wood around him* as it would have annoyed me to death, especially as its the oc trackday. Have to say thanks to Aimee for letting me dedicate all my time recently to the R, trying to get it prepared.

Im fitting new brakes this weekend. Big disc upgrade on the rear and front 6 pot Tarox brakes on the front. Just need to bed the pads in when they arrive. I hope im able to remove all pins and bleed nipples without any issues as i have new ones coming. Nearly fell off my seat when he gave me the price of the track pads :doh:

Whats wrong with your brakes Andy? Is there damage on your pulley wheel hence the alternator belt shredding? Have you a split hose on your oil cooler hence the oil on underside of the engine?

Why do R's always do this :roll:

Ant.

 

[pulsarboby]

glad yours is sorted ant, its possible it may be the stalk flasher unit thats causing a short and causing a spike in the ecu, might be worth changing that for another before you start ripping through all the wiring and so forth.

andy....sounds to me as though your c/s pulley maybe boogered! that would shred the belt and if the dampers split the vibration could have boogered up your front main oil seal, hense it chucking oil everywhere