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Odin
Guest
:shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: , Harsh but fairKeira said:
.Sorry bob couldn't resist ;-) .
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Rob
.Sorry bob couldn't resist ;-) .
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Rob
cams need to be run as any high spots will need to be 'worn off', there is no bearing for the cam cap so any high spots on the cam will wear against the cap, not spit a bearing, 15-20mins at a 2500-3000rpm will take care of that, Poor topend lubrication as seen by a few will cause a problem at this point (anyone remember carpy :shockOdin said:
a crank shouldn't need any pussy footing about with it, if it catches a bearing due to a poor tolerance you might aswell say cya to your rebuild, that would probably happen pretty soon after start up tbh.
due to far better machining these days rings and bores dont require 1000's of miles worth of fooking about with either. If everythings been done right 100miles worth should be your lot.
you only need to see how quickly an engine is run in on a dyno to see whats actually required.
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Odin
Guest
Keira said:
So hopefully the first three half throttle runs will do for the camshaft run in period 8) :lol: :lol: :lol: .
Rob
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pulsarboby
Guest
Keira said:
hahaha very funny kieron, my engine would have been going strong today if it hadnt of been through some halfwits fcukup, the engine build was spot on. no halfwit fcukups will be chanced this time round;-) so if this one goes bang then il hold me hands up and say its my fault, no question.
just run it in however you like rob, as i say its down to you how you do it, but mine wont have the nuts screamed out of it untill its covered around 500 miles.
the most important thing with new cams is not to let the engine sit at idle for the first 20mins.Odin said:
The cam is the most loaded part of the engine, its all to do with the force the valve springs require to compress them, the cam has to apply that force thousands of times a minute :shock: its a far greater loading than exerted on the piston, rods or bearings
There should've been a manufacturers recommendation with the new cams about how to run them in but yours are probably in japanese gooble-do-gook :lol:
if you have set the cam timing, ignition timing to get it running and plugged everything straight back in theres nothing else to do, obvioulsy you wouldn't really be wanting to try and sort out a base map to get it going for the first time there and then.
if you start it up and something leaks, switch it off, sort it out and start again.
As fas as new cams are concerned switching the engine off wont cause any problems, letting it idle whilst you p!ss about looking for leaks will
if you start it up and something leaks, switch it off, sort it out and start again.
As fas as new cams are concerned switching the engine off wont cause any problems, letting it idle whilst you p!ss about looking for leaks will
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pulsarboby
Guest
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
read that before and thats how ive always run things in, in the past! thats including newly built bike engines (run in on the track) which is nail biting stuff on 2 wheels!
as it says in that link,'this is a very contreversial subject' and that is very true.
as kieron has stated correctly above cams are run in at 2-3k rpm in timed stages with camlube, which is very important, and that is universal with any cam whether it be on a 1.3 cvh or a high performance car.
and the reason i would not run bearings in hard is simply because when you first run an engine in, it is run on mineral oil and not synthetic, as synthetic oil will not allow your rings to cut correctly.
now thats ok with your everyday run of the mill car, but these are high performance forced induction engines (especially yours) and i dont think that mineral oil is upto the job of lubing the bearings etc if your gonna thrash the ass out of it straight off.
but as i say, this is my opinion and opinions will vary greatly! so you do whatever you think is best for your engine.
back to topic.....lewis, if you can wait a few weeks then i will do it for you, but im booked till around mid december at the moment. pm me if you dont mind waiting. also let aaron know his turbo is good, so if he runs car down il get it fitted for him, also have a crank here if you need it
read that before and thats how ive always run things in, in the past! thats including newly built bike engines (run in on the track) which is nail biting stuff on 2 wheels!
as it says in that link,'this is a very contreversial subject' and that is very true.
as kieron has stated correctly above cams are run in at 2-3k rpm in timed stages with camlube, which is very important, and that is universal with any cam whether it be on a 1.3 cvh or a high performance car.
and the reason i would not run bearings in hard is simply because when you first run an engine in, it is run on mineral oil and not synthetic, as synthetic oil will not allow your rings to cut correctly.
now thats ok with your everyday run of the mill car, but these are high performance forced induction engines (especially yours) and i dont think that mineral oil is upto the job of lubing the bearings etc if your gonna thrash the ass out of it straight off.
but as i say, this is my opinion and opinions will vary greatly! so you do whatever you think is best for your engine.
back to topic.....lewis, if you can wait a few weeks then i will do it for you, but im booked till around mid december at the moment. pm me if you dont mind waiting. also let aaron know his turbo is good, so if he runs car down il get it fitted for him, also have a crank here if you need it
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Odin
Guest
I agree with the oil bit thats why I wont be giving high RPM until after the second oil change, And I've re fitted the oil cooler, I doubt a few runs on the dyno will harm it as the oil wont really have chance to break down, I plan to run it in for 30 miles then change the oil for more mineral oil run another 250-500 miles, Then switch to the Pro S.pulsarboby said:
And I wont be giving long periods of high revs until the good stuffs been chucked in ;-) .
I'm a bit worried about the whole start up thing because a lot of stuff has changed since it ran last time, ie different Engine/manifold/turbo/waste gate/exhaust and ignition :shock: , But the old turbo was much the same just a lot more laggy so it should start up OK and not be to rich, But it's bound to need a bit of adjustment.
I'll just cross everything that it turns out as planned.
Rob
GTIR-LOZ
New Member
i thought if you ran the vehicle in hard from start off then you would indeed gain power but reduce the longevity of the engine whereas if you run in slowley then agreed you would not get as much power but the engine would last a lifetime, or is that all bollox:-D
with the startup thing i dont know how else you would setup your 20 degree advance on the dizzy cap without runnning the vehicle and using a timing light, and as you have to have the vehicle up to temperature to do this as well as adjust idle etc im sure it would be more than 20 minutes, or do you just run the vehicle on base timing and whatever idle it stats up on and worry about it later on?? also some leaks dont manifest themselves until the engine is warm
with the startup thing i dont know how else you would setup your 20 degree advance on the dizzy cap without runnning the vehicle and using a timing light, and as you have to have the vehicle up to temperature to do this as well as adjust idle etc im sure it would be more than 20 minutes, or do you just run the vehicle on base timing and whatever idle it stats up on and worry about it later on?? also some leaks dont manifest themselves until the engine is warm
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pulsarboby
Guest
Odin said:
thats precisely what i was saying in my first post to lewis that you picked up on:doh: :roll:
dont drive it like a nutter untill its covered around 500 miles:lol:
as for your timing, it wont cause any harm with it running untill its setup correctly UNLESS you get in the car and start ragging the ass out of it from the off, this will give it a high chance of detting then you could cause irrepairable damage.
you,ve put one hell of a lot of money into that motor, and those first few miles you do are crucial, and you only get one shot at it so dont blow it through moments of madness!
loz.......what you say is SUPPOSED to be true! however the link on running in period from the states, suggests the complete opposite, and as it says in the link, there are differing views on both sides, so its really what YOU think is best for YOUR engine, as to how you run it in.
ive ran many car and bike engines in using that exact same method in the past, and other than my previous rebuild, they have all been fine, (but then my previous rebuild would have been fine too, if i had chose my mapper correctly)as it was strong and healthy upto that point, but not going in to all that again.
tbh no one really knows how long the engine will last using this method, as they are either put on track which will considerably shorten the life of an engine anyway (i will be happy to see one years racing from my rebuild) or car is sold on at some point, so who knows!!!
always given my engines and full throttle kick up the **** with in 15 minutes of starting engine and touch wood all of them have lasted with very low oil usage the engine needs all the rev range and lots of heat cycles to bed everything in properly look how a formula 1 engine is bedded in lol thrown in the car and ran very hard
Braveheart
New Member
Break In Secrets was a good read and makes a lot of sense in relation to bedding in the pistons to cylinders and changing the oil after 20 miles. It does point out though that you should not use synthetic oil too soon so I guess it's in with more mineral as Rob will do.Odin said:
As discussed, this method may not be possible after a full rebuild and more.
In Robs case, he's changed so much that the chances of him being able to fire it up, get it warm and take it for an aggressive run in virtually nil. And yes, with the minerel oil, you could even start to score bearing surfaces and cams at 80-100% revs.
The ideal solution would be to run it in gently, have the lump set up properly then........
:shock: :doh: ;-) remove the engine, have the cylinders honed again, replace the rings and aggressive method to seal cylinders..... who's got the time or patience to do that. :doh:
Braveheart
New Member
Stones... no:shock: but it obviously has much less protection than a good synthetic oil.ashills said:
One of the reasons it's proscribed during the run in period is to allow a little wear on the rough... synthetic would protect them too well and not bed things in.
Now that you have removed the tough, that's all mixed with your mineral oil and running through your engine. Some of which may not get immediatly caught in the filter.
With a greatly increased bhp engine, I would be reluctant to rag it with mineral oil in at any time.
GTIR-LOZ
New Member
ideally you need to coat the surfaces of the bearings/pistons etc with a running in paste im using graphogen which keeps the bearings lubricated when running in etc i have heard you can run the engine with just this stuff on and it will be ok ( for a short while anyway) obviously i wont be trying that lol
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Odin
Guest
My personal opinion is that mineral oils are only really a problem if you let them get to hot, And given that it will only be in the engine a short time then it wont have time to break down to much......
As for the chances of my car running first time then I don't see it being to much of a problem, The new turbo is pretty close to the old one so the fueling requirements shouldn't be to dissimilar, I've not changed injectors or anything. The only real difference will be at higher revs and Russ should be able to sort the fueling out in the first few minuets, This is why I ran the engine so hard on his rollers last time, To make sure the fuel and ignition maps would be as good as pos.
The proof is in the pudding I suppose lol.
Rob
As for the chances of my car running first time then I don't see it being to much of a problem, The new turbo is pretty close to the old one so the fueling requirements shouldn't be to dissimilar, I've not changed injectors or anything. The only real difference will be at higher revs and Russ should be able to sort the fueling out in the first few minuets, This is why I ran the engine so hard on his rollers last time, To make sure the fuel and ignition maps would be as good as pos.
The proof is in the pudding I suppose lol.
Rob
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Odin
Guest
:doh: :roll: Yeah like that's going to happen :der: .Braveheart said:
Rob ;-)