Gti-r - what happened to us?

[Andy Sunny Gti]

I know it's been talked about over the years many times before.
But this car used to be respected a lot.
It just seems like we got the short straw when it comes to the jokes, price, and rally history.
This was the level we were on before...Now it's more or less how we stand as printed on this article.

5. Gti-r
4. Impreza
3. Evo
2. Intergrale
1. Cossie

Discuss

 

[The Doc]

They Still get respect and mag articles, theres dan w ,grant, dencon,mark turbo,phil bracpan,danf f,rich 1216,lional has just built a quick one ,there is a vet engined one in liver pool and of course tony bardy ,dan w,,aby and another with the pukka rally cars the issue we have is too many people saying the cars are shit when they are actually badly built by themselves and then they break, granted they are old and hard to drive fast because they don't have the electronics of the newer stuff.

 

[vss irvine]

personally i dont give a rats ass what people think.

tony bardy was running second in the mull rally last year right up to the final couple of stages. he only went out due to driver error.

you dont do a rally like mull with a shit car.

your never going to get over the issues of people slating the cars especially gearboxes. i know what these cars are capable of when looked after.

nobody buys these cars to fit in with a crowd. we buy then to stand out

for me the good points outweigh the bad.

 

[Andy Sunny Gti]

I think you are missing the point.
What I mean is in general, about how the Gti-r is viewed.
For example, a rotten cossie or intergrale shell can sell more than I running clean high spec Gti-r.
In other words, people are willing to spend on these to modify or restore and fix up again.
Now are we going to say its because people prefer either 100% modified or 100% standard.
I fine example again right now. Phil (bracpan) car £10000, the black standard Gti-r on eBay £10000. Both been up for sale for a long time. Yet not sold. I am sure you will tell me the right buyer will come along and buy it. But why should the sellers have to wait so long for their good car to sell.
It seems like the Gti-r is only worth it for those in the know how, so prices will stay very low.
But the other cars whether good or not, every one who owns them know they could possibly add up to 40% extra on the price because it is a popular well respect car and someone will by it within a few weeks if not days.
They see it as an investment, but the Gti-r can't really be seen as one.
Why?

 

[vpulsar]

Because the gtir really doesn't have any pedigree, especially when you compare it against the two cars you mentioned, one a world class winning rally car the other a world class winning touring car, the gtir hasn't really won much has it.

 

[PobodY]

What Rob said.

The other problem is that there is no iconic (read flamboyant) driver association. - Notice how every Scoobie owner has a shrine to Colin McCrae?

All that means that the fan-base is only people who know what they are, rather than what they were(n't).

 

[Andy Sunny Gti]

It still doesn't explain why you can sell a Ford Escort Rs Turbo, or a R5 Gt Turbo for between £5-10k.
These cars are still seen as more value then a well sorted Gti-r. Why?

Yes granted the Rally history was not great.

See below...
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[h=2]GTI-R WRC History[/h]World Rally Championship Works Team

After producing the required 5000 examples (500 of them homologation models) under FIA Group-A classification, Nissan entered the GTI-R World Rally Championship (WRC) as a factory team (NME) in 1991 & 1992.
NME only competed in selected rallies during both years (ones they thought had the highest potential for positive results), but the expected initial success did not materialise, and they never won a WRC Group A rally in the GTI-R. The WRC campaign was abandoned by Nissan in 1992 and the funnding was redirected to Le Mans and the development of the R390. NME redirected their attention to the fwd Formula 2 division.
Much has been written about the reason for the failure (see articles in the gallery). The most significant being the Dunlop tyres which were not at the standard of the competition, the inefficiency of the top-mounted intercooler when engine power was increased to Group A levels, and the political and cultural issues between Nissan Japan and the newly created Nissan Motorsport Europe.

1991 Group-A Results

Round 4 - 39th Martini Safari Rally Kenya

• Stig Blomqvist - 5th
• Mike Kirkland - 7th
• David Llewellin - DNF (Accident)

Round 6 - 38th Acropolis Rally

• David Llewellin - 9th
• Stig Blomqvist - DNF (Differential)

Round 9 - 41st 1000 Lakes Rally

• Stig Blomqvist - 8th
• David Llewellin - 10th

Round 14 - 47th Lombard RAC Rally

• Stig Blomqvist - DNF (Suspension)
• David Llewellin - DNF (Electrical)

​
1992 Group-A Results

Round 1 - 60th Rallye Automobile de Monte-Carlo

• François Chatriot - 7th
• Tommi Mäkinen - 9th

Round 2 - 41st International Swedish Rally

• Stig Blomqvist - 3rd (BEST RESULT)

Round 3 - 25th Rallye de Portugal

• François Chatriot - 6th
• Tommi Mäkinen - DNF (Accident)

Round 9 - 42nd 1000 Lakes Rally

• Stig Blomqvist - DNF (Engine)
• Tommi Mäkinen - DNF (Gearbox)

Round 14 - 48th Lombard RAC Rally

• Tommi Mäkinen - 8th
• Stig Blomqvist - DNF (Accident)

Group-N Champions!

The FIA Group-N (Production Class) specification was lot more successful for the GTI-R.
Although NME did not enter Group N cars directly in the WRC, in 1992 they backed the Nissan Belgium Rally Team with lead driver Grégoire De Mévius. That year there was also a Japanese entry (Team and backing unknown) driven by Hiroshi Nishiyama.
The GTI-R finished 1 and 2 in the 1992 Group N Championship (FIA Cup for Drivers of Production Cars), clearly showing that it had the specifications and ability to be a successful rallying car at Production Class level on the world stage.

1992 Group-N Results

Round 3 - 26th Rallye de Portugal

• Grégoire De Mévius - 3rd (13th overall)

Round 4 - 40th Martini Safari Rally Kenya

• Hiroshi Nishiyama - 3rd (16th overall)

Round 6 - 39th Acropolis Rally

• Grégoire De Mévius - 1st (9th overall)

Round 8 - 12th Rally Argentina

• Hiroshi Nishiyama - 2nd (9th overall)
• Grégoire De Mévius - DNF (Late for start)

Round 9 - 42nd 1000 Lakes Rally

• Grégoire De Mévius - 3rd (13 overall)

Round 12 - 24th Rallye Côte d'Ivoire Bandama

• Hiroshi Nishiyama - 1st (4th overall)
• Grégoire De Mévius - DNF (Engine)

Round 14 - 48th Lombard RAC Rally

• Grégoire De Mévius - 2nd (14 overall)

 

[MarkTurbo]

The other problem is that there is no iconic (read flamboyan) driver associataren't

You need to do your homework on the history of rallying if you think Tommi Makinen & Stig Blomqvist aren't iconic drivers!

 

[PobodY]

They are, but Tommi will always be associated with the EVO. - Far more successful, and he had some spectacular driving that people remember and associate with Mitsubishi.

Stig will always be associated with the Quattro. - That was a game-changing car.

 

[vss irvine]

Yawn....

If your in for the long haul it doesnt matter what the pricrs are.

The car doesnt have the following so in turn doesnt have the desirability.

Good cars are still fetching decent money its just a shame the motorsport cars cant make the money they deserve.

Fact is they are worth more in parts.

 

[PobodY]

Sad, but true.

 

[Born Again]

It still doesn't explain why you can sell a Ford Escort Rs Turbo, or a R5 Gt Turbo for between £5-10k.
These cars are still seen as more value then a well sorted Gti-r. Why?

Basic economics.....supply against demand.
A cars value has little or nothing to do with how good a car it is, it's pretty much purely down to how many people want one.

 

[bracpan]

Tell me about it I have been trying to sell mine all summer, its won 2 championships and I cant get anybody to even look at it,,,stick a cossie badge on it and it would have gone for double....and I can beat them all day.....its sickning. i wish I could just put it away but I want to rebuild another car so have no option..

 

[fubar andy]

The GTiR is crap!

It's won jack shit (in the WRC) which makes it gash!

I hate these threads because its always the same shit over and over again.

I'm fine with the lack of features, people in the "know" understand that the cars are fast.
In the "real world" of scooby drivers and the like, they are always trying to weigh up our cars because they don't know enough about them or what power they might have.

 

[Andy Sunny Gti]

The fact that there is so few left, threads likes these are good. Even if this ground has been gone over before.
When there will only be like 10 left you will be asking yourself, only if they were more desirable like the Cossies, and in 20 years time my Gti-r would be worth £20k+.
Some of you are saying as long as I know it good thats all that matters.
In reality we want evreyone taking about it to bring the prices up.

 

[The Doc]

The Gtir won the WRC Group -n championship in the hands of Gregoire de Mavius for nissan motorsport belgium team, so it did actually win something.

It is just an underated car in the uk that has not had the cult status branding around long enough to have high prices yet.

 

[Andy Sunny Gti]

The way I see it is that the Gti-r has just got into the wrong hands in the last 6 years, this has lead to chav buying them, and messing them up.

The Gti-r used to be compared to Evo's and Scoobies back in the day, even with it's crap Rally history.
It's is how it developed after that period c.2006 and the type of owners who got them, that has led to it's flawed history and cullt following.

Remember how the Gti-r was compare to in the late 90's early 00-06.

Only us the owners can save the Gti-r.

How?

More meets, more cars build threads, more togetherness, rolling road days, track days, mag features.


Let me jog your memory, and how great we used to be and how great we still can be...lol

p.s I really do talk crap sometimes, but i speakth the truth...lol

 

[The Doc]

It is not just the owners to blame many traders have distrtoyed the car by slating them constantly as well, and it just shows how good they were via the factual point that none of them ever could build a reliable car producing the power they stated when tested, Bruce spence was a classic case that with the spec the car should have been in excess of 500hp when in fact it made 360bhp and then blew up, it was purely down to very bad workmanship not the parts used.

When people do build good reliable cars they don't really say anything due to one issue or another and now the car is starting to suffer from it, The sooner people realise that if the cars are built correctly then they will be reliable and that specialist wise the only people left that can encompass all works needed (if they can afford it) is Fusion Motorsport , no other company can build and tune a gtir as they do not have the knowledge of all areas needed.

 

[bracpan]

Built correctly they are still very effective against any other saloon car...Myself and Den have proved that many times with the results we have had.
I would love to put mine away for a few years but cant afford to build my next car without selling it. My next racer will not be road legal and easy/lighter to move around (im not getting any younger) plus I need a new challenge......I have raced since 1987 and the Pulsar has been the most succesfull car I have competed in. But sady not the most appreciated by others...

 

[vpulsar]

I don't really care if the pulsar/Sunny won anything or not, I love it because it's amazing road car if built properly and maintained properly.

All the good cars have been built by people not tuners all they seem to do is fuck them up, Ed knows how to tune them safely and the Nistune is a big step forward so no more having to pay a fortune for after market ECU's unless that's what you want, I'd rather have the standard idle control personally.

I'm having mine built for me for my own satisfaction I don't care if it's worth a tenner or ten grand I'm never selling it so it doesn't matter.


Rob