*UPDATED* Checkerflag and Tomei and their product.

[Nad]

I am finally getting somewhere regarding what has been happening with peoples order. It has taken some time and I have still not got to the bottom but heres what I have found out so far.

After ordering 2 sets of Procam and Pulleys we thought we had got the wrong cams. We got:

1435 260110 Lot 3101 SR20 EX 260 - 11.0 SP

143k 260110 Lot 3101 SR20 IN 260 - 11.0 SP

when the part numbers we were after were:

1435 260120 SR20 IN 260 - 12.0

143K260120 SR20 EX 260 - 12.0

We had got 11mm lift instead of 12mm lift .

I then mailed Checkerflag and got this reply:

Dear Nad,

I have sent you say the following tomei cam parts . and the number is correct..

Tomei website data (lift 12.0 mm) is for SR20DET(Silvia and 180SX cars). Pulsor GTi-R engine is lift 11.0mm so that the valve springs can use to lift 11.8mm can't use 12.0mm...

Please undestand on that.. If you have problem, let me know... Anyway, I tell you above on that..

Thank you with regards
Teruo Miyazawa
Checker Trading CO.,

now I understand what they mean about the lift the valve springs can take and that has always puzzled me :roll: . I then recieved this from Tomei.

Thank you for your enquiry.

First, the GTi-R camshaft has 11mm lift is previous model :shock:

In addition, If you want to attach this 11mm camshaft, you need TOMEI valve spring set.( Tomei valve spring limit is to 11.8mm lift.)

Second, regarding exchanging, please contact CHECKER FLAG directly.

Thank you and Best Regards.

Tomei Powered Inc.
Furuya

All this told me was that Checkerflag had sent old stock which is why it is no longer listed on the Tomei website. I then mailed Tomei again to ask about the new cams and got this reply.

Thank you for more enquiry,

RNN14 camshaft, Our current model has 12mm and 12.5mm lift. (Need strengthen valve springs)

http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-catalogue/efr_index.html

But please keep in mind, Unfortunately, Our Valve spring limit is 11.8mm lift, made for previous model 11mm lift. It can not to use more 12mm lift camshaft... :?

If you use our valve spring to 12mm lift camshaft,
It will may be caused a serious damage to E/G .

Thank You and Best Regards.

Tomei Powred Inc.
furuya

So now I have emailed Checkerflag with part numbers to see if they stock the new cams as listed on the Tomei website, which were listed anyway when I ordered my cams last July :evil: . I have also mailed Tomei asking what to do about valve springs if they supply 12 and 12.5mm lift for RNN14 but no valve springs to suit what am I to use :? . On their site they still list the 11.8mm lift spring so I have asked if they have a new spring which isnt listed yet on the site or if it is possible to use either of the other SR20DET sets listed.

*UPDATED*

Just heard back from TOMEI, that was bloody fast, about 2hrs, nice to know someone works on a Saturday!

Thank you for additional inquiry,

First, We have not a schedule to produce new RNN14 valve spring. Please try to find other brand valve spring or our previous RNN14 camshaft, has 11.0mm lift, with our valve spring.

Second, Due to difference of E/G, 173004 and 163025 cannot use RNN14.


Thank you and Best Regards.

Tomei Powered Inc,
furuya

I also found out that Abbey are a dealer, I think Ripple may of know this (he goes there more than anyone else ), so I mailed them the same info to see if they get any better answers out of Tomei than I do.

Bruce, are u still on the standard valve spring as Tomei say if I use their 11.8mm lift springs and the 12mm lift cams it may damage the E/G (engine :?: )

Ripple what cams have you gone for :?:

What springs is everyone else using for 12mm lift then :?:

L8rs

Nad

 

[Sirnixalot]

well this sucks

 

[skiddusmarkus]

Jun make springs too-Habib and Taka can get them that I know of.I'll try and find the lift.

It doesn't say I'm afraid .

http://www.kendo-tuning.nl/01c1bd94...43701/01c1bd9412111cd0f/000000944a0955608.htm

 

[zia]

jun only do 11.5 lift cam but they do double springs. doesn,t ginga have 12.mm hks cam with standard springs?.is there a really difference between 11.0-12.mm i wouldn,t have thought it make that huge a difference in terms of power?

zia

 

[GINGA]

Yeh I use hks 264 step 2 with 12mm lift with standard springs and pulleys all seems well at the moment apart from the noise that is i've got to recheck the clearance soon though just for peace of mind
Also got a rocker stopper kit on order to, so i'll check them when I fit that

 

[Nad]

Yeah I too have got the rocker stopper. Tomei themselves have said that the 11.8mm springs may be no good for their 12mm lift cams and that seems to be correct otherwise they could have just told me they would be ok. Everywhere I read it says about valve float if the spring cant cope and this says it loses power.

The Tomei springs are also a double set but they may not compress enough either to allow that sorta lift. If u look on their site they r designed very differently to the normal spring in their spacing design.

I take it they must be better than the standard spring?

Nad

 

[Jobi Joba]

He he...so Checker made fun of me...don't like that. :evil:

Just want to say my hat is off for Tomei:they always answer fast.When I asked them to get the manuals of my forged pistons and of my adjustable pulleys in english,they faxed me the manual within a day!!! 8) Great!!

I have the Tomei reinforced valve springs...so I think I'll go for HKS 264 11.5mm lift camshafts.

BTW,is there someone who knows what E/G stands for?Usually E/G rings the "exhaust gas" bell for me...but I think they use it for "engine" this time.Anyone knows?

note:std GTIR valve springs are double springs,so are Tomei ones...

 

[skiddusmarkus]

I took E/G to mean engine.I'm ordering the Tomei springs either today oe beginning of next week with some other goodies-just waiting on something at mo.

 

[Nad]

Well I took the head off but cant say I really noticed. Its hard to notice in the box of new ones let alone the head.

Nad

 

[Hkondakci]

Hi Nad,
That sucks mate , having cams but not the right valvesprings. I didn't know this issue; I really thought that the valvesprings TOMEI sell are suited to their cams; it's really odd to have cams but not to supply the right valve springs.
It's very important to have the right valvesprings, shims and retainers when using solid type high duration and high lift camshafts.
I'm not home at the moment, but I will look at the specs of the JUN valvesprings. I hope they can take 12mm lift cams.
My cams are as you know the JUN 272 11.0mm lift ones, they do suit with the JUN double valve springs and retainers.
But again I let you know the info I can find.
rgds
habib

 

[Hkondakci]

Hi Nad,

Just looked at all our books etc, but couldn't find the JUN lift rate. But it probably isn't meant for 12.0 to 12.5mm lift cams, since their max 280degree cam has 11.5mm lift.

Then I thought other japanese brands, coudln't find anything there either.

And then I thought Ferrea Bingo, of course our headwork specialist in the states.
They have a special dual valvespring type for the SR20DE Sentra B13 for turbo application; I think (but don't know fur sure, but this can be asked, and they speak Enlish too :lol: ) these are meant for the RNN14 head, since these are different then the others. The beauty is they can handle 13.5mm lift!!!
here the full spec's:
part no: S10038; OD=22.75 mm, ID=17.1 mm, seat press=80 lbs, open press=180 lbs, rate inch=254 lbs, coil blind=20 mm, lift=13.5 mm

you can contact them directly via www.ferrea.com

Hope this helps

rgds
habib

 

[Sirnixalot]

i have emailed them about making springs from the standard ones....i will see if i can get a hold of a B13/B14 head and try some R valve springs

 

[AZ STE]

Nad,
Why not just keep the 11mm lift cams and fit Tomei spring kit.I cant imagine 1mm makes that much difference :?: . Id imagine increasing the valve dia would have the same effect

 

[Sirnixalot]

increasing the valve diameter will have a similar but not the same effect. Besides that would add tot he difficulty of shimming the cams as when you do a valve job the valves are recessed further into the head, you would need to take the depth the valve has reccessed into the head away from the shim thickness that would normaly be used.

Also with the standard valve and higher lift you keep the port velocity up, with will give you good torque and engine response.

Larger valves are only really needed on high revving NA motors as they have trouble filling and evacuating the cylinders. We dont have this problem....boost fills them for us. Larger valve also moves the power band up a little in the rpm range.

Im not saying that larger valves are bad..im just saying that a higher lift cam is more desirable.

 

[Nad]

Thing is why bother upgrading the cams at all, if with the HKS it just moves the power band further up, for what reason and u only get .8mm extra lift. It obviously makes a lot of difference otherwise why bother paying out. Cams are one of the most important parts of the engine as it decides how the engine responds. Ideally u want as much lift as possilbe, so that extra 1mm on the same duration will make a lot of difference. It will give more torque over the whole rev range and help spool up. Also it will be a 2.2 so will need filling up more.

I dont want the ports bigger because as stated by Nikko this reduces port velocity, if anything make them smaller to increase port velocity and aid power delivery.

Ideally the best cam lobe would be a rectangle but this isnt possbile but the higher the lift the closer u r to an idea, lift never hurt anyone

This is why I am striving to sort this out, I have taken long enough I dont want to skimp on this one bit.

Nad

 

[AZ STE]

Thanks for the answers as Im trying to get my head around Gtir tuning packages and whats the best coming from normally aspirated and two stroke tuning, adding a turbo seems to add a whole new dimension.

 

[robinsongtir]

Just spoke to a friend in New Zealand who deals with Ferrea and apparantly there springs can handle up to 14mm lift still waiting on a price for the springs on there own but for valve springs,titanium retainers and vavle spring locators $1150NZ so roughly £450 I would imagine the vavle springs being around the £250 mark

 

[Jobi Joba]

if with the HKS it just moves the power band further up, for what reason and u only get .8mm extra lift.

U're talking about the HKS 264° 11mm lift?Cause they also exist in 11.5mm lift version.
BTW,I guess nobody has already tried to fit HKS cams with adjustable pulley correctly set up.I bet the result is really different...

 

[Nad]

I was just making an example of a small cam lift, dunno if they actually make one or not. I havent tried HKS pulleys, I got Tomei ones

Nikko spoke to Ferrera and they dont make springs for our cars, but if u want 5000 sets they will :!: Nikko is still trying to find out if the B13 ones will fit.

Pete I take it is for a GTIR, let us know what hes getting in regards to what Nikko found out.

Nad

 

[Jobi Joba]

I was just making an example of a small cam lift, dunno if they actually make one or not. I havent tried HKS pulleys, I got Tomei ones

I also have Tomei ones...but pulleys can be fitted on all camshafts...