Top End Sound

[B1Ad3]

Hey guys,

Ive noticed once the car is up to operating temp ( thermo fans come on ) ive been getitng a louder than usually 'slapping' noise on top of the engine.

I know thes engines are noisy due to solid lifters and all, thats fine but this is more of a slapping noise and im just wondering what it is.

The noise is anywhere between cylinder 1 and the middle of the engine.

I was thinking it might be the PCV on its way out and not closing properly, i have one and i just have to fit it however i was also thinking maybe one of the lifters might be damaged or osmething.

Common issue? Anyone had anything like this. Im running 5/50 oil btw

Thanks guys.

 

[pulsarboby]

be very carefull here!
could possibly be a bigend on its way. the noise has a tendency to sound like its coming from the topend initially but infact its the bottom end.
get your head under the sump and listen there with a screwdriver to try and pinpoint it!

btw hope im wrong for your sake;-)

 

[B1Ad3]

I hope your wrong to because the engine has been rebuilt and i change the oil every 5000k's.

I dont hit limiter if anything and its my daily so spirited driving is at a minimum.

Its kind of a intimitent sound, its there sometimes like for a few seconds and then it will stop for a few seconds. Ive head bad lifters before in a suzuki gti g13b and it sounds alot like it.

 

[B1Ad3]

Its definately top end, no noise under neath.

Im pretty sure its around cylinder 1.

If a lifter is damaged, is it something that has to be changed straight away or changed at all? Will it deteriorate at all or it will just remain noisy?

 

[marcymarc]

Will it deteriorate at all or it will just remain noisy?

Deteriorate ofcause.

From personel experience, if you have a problem that can more or less be nailed down as engine internals then the car comes of the road straight away, dont even tempt driving it.

 

[B1Ad3]

Well it means i have to pull the head apart, cams out and everything to change the lifters sigh.

How will i know which one has been damaged by looking at them, will i see scratches or anything on them??

 

[pulsarboby]

they will be marked on the face surface (possibly cam aswell)

you dont have to remove the head, just the cams and pull the damaged ones out 'if there are any' but if noise is coming from front of your engine then i would seriously take a look at timing chain guide and possibly tensioner as the guides do tend to wear through the nylon plastic cover and the chain hits the metal part underneath causing a not very nice noise!

before you do that though, remove all drive belts and start car up as it could be a noisy auxilliary pulley, water pump etc. so check those first!

 

[youngsyp]

Its kind of a intimitent sound, its there sometimes like for a few seconds and then it will stop for a few seconds.

From that description, it sounds to me like one of the shims is turning around, on top of a specific valve. Hence the noise being there, then not, then there again.

I guess the only way to rectify that is to re-shim it. And if you're going to the effort, do all 16 valves, not just the one that's noisy.

Give Bob's idea a go first though, it certainly can't hurt !

Paul

 

[B1Ad3]

Its not as loud as i first suspected, there is no noise underneath and i have pinned it down to def inately around cylinder 1.

Its only slightly louder than the overall engine sound so maybe its not that bad however it hink its something that might develop over time, unless it just stays at a slight tapping noise and might not develop?

 

[marcymarc]

unless it just stays at a slight tapping noise and might not develop?

dream on matey :lol: your not gonna get anyone telling you just what you want to hear on this site.

Get the car in at a garage/specialist soon as poss

 

[B1Ad3]

dream on matey :lol: your not gonna get anyone telling you just what you want to hear on this site.

Get the car in at a garage/specialist soon as poss

well it looks like ill be pulling the head apart.

I can do it, i think ^_^

 

[steven_c]

let us know what it turns out to be mate

 

[B1Ad3]

Late reply i know but the noise actually got better but it has turned up again, its definately top end noise right next to the oil cap so i think its a roller rocker or something.

The best way to describe the noise is when the engine is being turned off, sounds like a card in the spokes of a bike sort of thing lol.

Its not getting louder and its not getting more frequent just staying the same, can only hear it at idle.

 

[rx jamie]

sounds like the chain to me then. my engine sounded like....when you were a kid and you put a can on your back wheel and went fast so it sounded like a motorbike. chain tensioner guide had worn through. that is an **** of a job! sump off, oil pump/chain cover housing off, cam cover off, belts off, pulley off and engine mount off!

 

[B1Ad3]

sounds like the chain to me then. my engine sounded like....when you were a kid and you put a can on your back wheel and went fast so it sounded like a motorbike. chain tensioner guide had worn through. that is an **** of a job! sump off, oil pump/chain cover housing off, cam cover off, belts off, pulley off and engine mount off!

The noise is to far from the chain, its clearly on the other wise of the oil cap.

The engine has been rebuilt around 40,000k ago now and all of this was replaced along with the chain.

That why im ruling it out.

 

[rx jamie]

hmmm. mine had a light tap at the top end every now and then, then about 1000 miles after it spun a few shells. was the bottom end after all. hopefully you should be ok after some surgery tho. fingers crossed for you

 

[B1Ad3]

If i take of the rocker cover and have a look around, if the rockers and damaged or worn, what am i looking for exactly.

How do i eliminate if its a rocker or just a bad lifter?

 

[Big Sve]

i have got the exact same sound on mine only i left it a while and its got far worse! Knock sensor on my SAFCII goes absolutely nuts when engine is up to temp. Noone round here wants to touch it let alone try a diagnosis so ive got the expensive call to Hi-Teq coming i feel :sad:

might mean the end of my R ownership days finally

 

[rx jamie]

maybe a cracked rocker arm so look for cracks. engine doesnt have lifters so you'll be ok there. check the shims. check for cam scoring as mentioned above.
but are you sure its not an injector ? my injectors are very noisey aswell you know. can here them from a good few meters away

 

[B1Ad3]

Well as above the noise has got worse and more consistant, so i looked up the clearance measurments needed and went at it.

The cams to rocker clearance was well within tolerance as was the rocker to shim clearance.

The only realt hing it can be now is timing chain and im not sure how, ive only just recently changed the chain tensioner and i dont get a rattle at start up to indicate the chain needs changing.

Not sure where to go from here guys, any suggestions?