Toluene and Octane Boost

[beast14]

I currently use toluene when i'm filling my tank......is it ok to mix this with octance boost like "104".........i've tried it several times before when i'm running high boost and have not detonated......but i'm wondering if this will cause any damage to my internals...........is it safe???

 

[skiddusmarkus]

I think toluelene(sp) is carconegenic(sp again) and you have to be very careful when using it-rubber gloves and protective clothing at least.Not worth the risk IMO.

 

[Fast Guy]

Why bother mixing it with anything, just use the Toluene.
http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/toluene.html

 

[MrMischief]

It's carcinogenic so watch what you're doing...

...I use xylene which is just as bad, but if you look at 99% of octane boosters that's what they contain - so they are carcinogenic to a certain degree.

10% ups the RON by 1 number
20% by 2...
30% by 3...
etc etc

Steve

PS I'm an industrial chemist to trade

 

[Anonymous]

Was speaking to a bloke i know that used to work on an r that was used in rallys, back in the mid 90's. he said that thery were originaly using aviation fuel, i think he said, but they kept blowing pistons, so he spoke to nismo, and they informed that theres no map in the ecu, for that fuel, and said to use tolulene, so they did and he swears by the stuff, not sure if they were using it straight or mixed though......
AND AS FOR IT BEING CARSENAGENIC, IM POSITIVE U ANT GOIN TO DIE FROM IT, UNLESS U GET EXPOSSED TO IT EVERY DAY FOR YEARS,,, I MEAN FUCK IM A PRINTER BY TRADE, AND THE SOLVENT WE USE, ALL DAY EVERY DAY WITHOUT GLOVES, HAS ONE OF THE WORSE CARSENEGENICS, IN IT THAT ANY SOLVENT HAS IN IT THAT CAN BE STILL USED, AND I ANT DIEING OF NOTHING,,,,(YET)..

 

[Fast Guy]

Aviation fuel comes in 2 (main) flavours Avgas and Kerosene. Kerosene is basically a diesel fuel and runs at very high compressions in jet engines and Avgas is a highly leaded (even tho it claims to be low lead) fuel for piston engines.
Using Avgas itself shouldn't blow pistons as it has a very high octane rating(both RON and MON), however the engine would need to be mapped specifically for this fuel as it burns slow in comparison to normal fuel (average aircraft engine may only rev to 300rpm max) or it will be a waste of time putting it in. It'll also kill your o2 sensor with the lead it contains.

Toluene is a very god octane raiser, but it is not very nice.

Anyway unleaded petrol is supposed to be more carcenagenic than leaded was. Looks like the goverment wanted to kill us rather than make us stupid, by replacing leaded with unleaded.

 

[MrMischief]

Anyway unleaded petrol is supposed to be more carcenagenic than leaded was. Looks like the goverment wanted to kill us rather than make us stupid, by replacing leaded with unleaded.

Yeah, very true - especially in optimax/super plus form.

If anybody has any moto-x experience, xylene's been used to boost the octane rating with them for years...just make sure your timing's adjusted to cope, or pistons will pop :shock:

 

[campbellju]

Can you use kerosene as an octane booster then. This might be a stupid question but I bought some the other day for cleaning paint brushes from B&Q (Terps substitute). Only £4.50 a gallon.... that's almost as cheap as petrol.

Actually it does look like a stupid question, I'm trying to say will the petrol still detonate and the kerosene just exit with the exhaust or will the "correct" mix reduce detonation?

I've not seen toluene yet but I'm not sure what its "branded" as? Where could you buy xylene, what's it normally used for?

 

[Fast Guy]

At a rough guess, I'd say putting kerosene in would be like putting diesel in. I wouldn't try it myself.
I think toluene is toluene. I'm not sure if it's branded as anything as that's it's name. :?:

 

[MrMischief]

Where could you buy xylene, what's it normally used for?

You can buy xylene from most trade outlets for painters & decorators... normally comes in 5litre cans...and generally not pure - only 98% xylene 8)

Or you could go to a lab supplier such as Mackay & Lynn and get Xylene SLR (but that's probably overkill for burning in an R :lol: )

 

[Anonymous]

I am a supervisor in a chemical plant and I use solvent's everyday, Toluene, Xylene and Cumene. You are right in thinking that these are all cancerous, and harmful, on the other hand some of the lads have been working with these aromatic solvents for 20 years plus, without sick!

I am well interested in this theory, of adding it to my R's fuel tank..
Especially as we keep 50 tonne or so of each type!

Manufacturer's Safety Data Sheet, available if any one's interested, pm, me.

Si

 

[ashills]

been running a very strong octane booster in the R recently what effect would it have on the plugs as mine had a red/brown coating to them any ideas??

 

[Fast Guy]

I think there was a thread on scoobynet a while ago and it was either the optimax or octane booster that was turning things red. I don't think it was doing any harm tho.

 

[celm]

It's carcinogenic so watch what you're doing...

...I use xylene which is just as bad, but if you look at 99% of octane boosters that's what they contain - so they are carcinogenic to a certain degree.

10% ups the RON by 1 number
20% by 2...
30% by 3...
etc etc

Steve

PS I'm an industrial chemist to trade

steve on these numbers here
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.2 Octane
20%...96.4 Octane
30%...98.6 Octane
is that by only mixing 1 gallon of Toluene to what amont of fuel

 

[KRS]

Doesnt sound like something I would use everyday, but for a Track/Drag days it could be a great way to have a bit more fun/better times if you have the ability to map it.

 

[Dooie Pop Pop]

Aviation fuel comes in 2 (main) flavours Avgas and Kerosene. Kerosene is basically a diesel fuel and runs at very high compressions in jet engines and Avgas is a highly leaded (even tho it claims to be low lead) fuel for piston engines.
Using Avgas itself shouldn't blow pistons as it has a very high octane rating(both RON and MON), however the engine would need to be mapped specifically for this fuel as it burns slow in comparison to normal fuel (average aircraft engine may only rev to 300rpm max) or it will be a waste of time putting it in. It'll also kill your o2 sensor with the lead it contains

avgas is used in smaller jets and helecopters its light blue and is described as 100octane low lead. because of what its used in the quality control is MUCH MUCH stricter cos you really dont want crap fuel when your 1000 feet up in the air. believe it was used in bikes at the isl of man tt races 10 yrs ago (i worked on a tank farm then) it was £4 a gallon :shock: never used it my self but a mate of mine used to mix it with standard petrol for his mz motorbike :twisted: as for burning slower im not sure but i do know it evaporates VERY quickly and dont leave much residue. in the uk its stored in bonded tanks which means tax duty is paid as it leaves storage. company called cyma (i think. its been a while ) moves a lot around the uk to various airports.

aviation kerosene is called jet A1 its clear. normal parrafin has a marker in it like red diesle. same material just cleaner for obvious reasons.

hope that helps. stu

 

[youngsyp]

Brownish or "biscuit" colouration of your plugs means, the engine is running very well, the mixture is good and everything is in good condition. Basically, what it should be. If its over fuelling it will be black and sooty(not the camp hand puppet :shock: :lol: ). If it's too lean and overheating, the ceramic around the centre electrode will be yellow and crumbling away.
I'm intriged with this toulene idea and will investigate further. This debate seems to pop up every now and again. I remember seeing this when I had my GT4 a couple of years ago.

 

[Fast Guy]

avgas is used in smaller jets and helecopters its light blue and is described as 100octane low lead. because of what its used in the quality control is MUCH MUCH stricter cos you really dont want crap fuel when your 1000 feet up in the air. believe it was used in bikes at the isl of man tt races 10 yrs ago (i worked on a tank farm then) it was £4 a gallon :shock: never used it my self but a mate of mine used to mix it with standard petrol for his mz motorbike :twisted: as for burning slower im not sure but i do know it evaporates VERY quickly and dont leave much residue. in the uk its stored in bonded tanks which means tax duty is paid as it leaves storage. company called cyma (i think. its been a while ) moves a lot around the uk to various airports.

aviation kerosene is called jet A1 its clear. normal parrafin has a marker in it like red diesle. same material just cleaner for obvious reasons.

hope that helps. stu

There's very few jets that use avgas, I think the Twin Otter (DHC6?) is the only one that I came across that could use it and never came across a helicopter after 15years in the RAF, but that's not to say there ain't any more.
Avgas (100LL) is classed as low lead because the lead content is very low compared to what it used to be, but it is very high in lead compared to pump petrol. It was dirt cheap compared to 4* when we used to have to ring up and get a price for it. It also smells ace
Jet A1 is the american (and civvy?) name for what the RAF call F34 Avtur-FSII

 

[campbellju]

Every time I look into this it comes down to cost. The cheapest I've seen xylene is about £7 a gallon.when buying in bulk. For me its too pricey and too much hassle for everyday. Looking on the IChemE website, you're meant to be able to buy a ton of xylene for £180, making it under £1 a gallon :shock:

Just need to convince the wife to install a 1000 gallon tank of xylene in the back yard with a pump. :lol: The neighbours might get a bit upset too.

On a serious note, I'm still toying with a water/octane booster injection kit. My mate was doing this 10 years ago with stuff less sophisticated than ERL with good results. IMO its the only practical way to use booster "everyday"... depending on how you drive

The trick is not to exceed 50% booster or you get problems.

 

[Dooie Pop Pop]

Avtur! thats the stuff, couldn' t remember been a while. thanks