question....

boucherie

boucherie

New Member
as my new turbo has arrived im going to be fitting 3" pipework into it from the air filter so would the standard air flow meter need to be ditched and something like a z32 purchased :?: The only reason i ask is that if i dont need to change it then is there any point in changing the size of the pipework into the air flow meter, as surely the AFM will restrict any increased flow from larger pipework :?:
i presume i can fit 3" from the AFM to the turbo will no ill effects :?:

sorry if ive confused anyone :!:
 
K

Keira

New Member
you have a few options.

1. go to a blow through set up :wink:
2. use a reducer to get the standard maf onto the 3 inch ( will look pants :( )
3. use a bigger maf (management allowing)
4. get a proper ecu and go map sensor ( expensive solution to an easily fixed problem :lol: )
 
A

AJ4

Guest
5) Get a piece of 3 inch pipe. Drill a hole in it. Take the sensor part out of your original MAF and fix it into the pipe. Re-map because now you'll be running lean. Bingo, an AFM thats exactly the right size and doesn't cost anything.

Why don't more people do this instead of buying Z32 Mafs :?: :?:
 
K

Keira

New Member
technically ross your number 5 is covered by my number 3 :wink: :lol:

yours should really be 3.a :lol:

although its a very good idea 8) , would be better than standard one on a reducer :(
 
S

sypher

New Member
for the maf in a larger diameter pipe idea, has anyone ever logged the ratio between air flow and voltage, and created a file to be used by these power fc / additional fuel controller thingies.
 
JIMMYBACK

JIMMYBACK

Active Member
AJ4 said:
5) Get a piece of 3 inch pipe. Drill a hole in it. Take the sensor part out of your original MAF and fix it into the pipe. Re-map because now you'll be running lean. Bingo, an AFM thats exactly the right size and doesn't cost anything.

Why don't more people do this instead of buying Z32 Mafs :?: :?:
Click to expand...
ffs why didnt you say so before :oops: :cry: anyone wann buy a z32 maf :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:
 
A

AJ4

Guest
not done it myself, but seen it done on other cars. For the PowerFc, you can just keep the same air/voltage ratio curve and re-scale it.

Apparently its a simple ratio thing with the pipe diameter, never worked it out though. I'll try and find the original article I saw that explains how to work it out.
 
Rishi

Rishi

Still waiting on some shims!
Doesn't that mess with the resolution though...

If you use the STD MAF with a larger pipe and rescale the voltage map technically you will be able to read for a greater airflow before it Maxes out...

So with that each volt would have go cover a wider airflow range...

Kind of like when you take a 17" monitor and run it at 1024 x 768, it looks nice.... But then you run that same resolution on a larger monitor, ie. same MAF in a larger intake tube... The resolution isn't there to give a clear picture the same way that the resolution of the standard MAF isn't enough to cover a larger intake in enough detail... Yes it will work but you are leaving yourself with an less that perfect map... Might aswell use an AFC...

Remember there is a reason that the STD MAF and the Z32 MAF are in the size tube intake that they are...

I think its the same reason the Japs never did it either...



Rishi
 
Nigell_d6

Nigell_d6

New Member
All to do with velocity/ calculated volume of air

reduce the pipe size, increaced velocity, increase pipe size ,decreased velocity hence the voltage signal is out for volume of air, so larger pipe lower signal, reduced fueling, run lean, so sticking it in the pipe provided the velocity/volume is known at any given point on the rev range the mapping can be calculated and set,

I like using lots of words Ross,

then theirs the intake filtration, speed, vortex, temperature, position, !!!!!!
 
A

AJ4

Guest
thats not really true for the PFC though. There are 32 mappable airlfow points, and you can have them wherever you want. You can shift the whole curve up to the top so you have more resolution at high rpm etc, or move it all down if you want a rock steady idle etc.

I agree that if you just scaled it all in one go, then yes, there will be less resolution between points, but as you can move the points together then it doesn't make any difference.
 
Nigell_d6

Nigell_d6

New Member
No probs Ross,

Having a Greddy e-manage fitted Im not totaly familiar with PFC so occasional Ill speak boll**ks as I dont know everything it can do

Ta

Nigel
 
Rishi

Rishi

Still waiting on some shims!
AJ4 said:
I agree that if you just scaled it all in one go, then yes, there will be less resolution between points, but as you can move the points together then it doesn't make any difference.
Click to expand...

So by doing that it would - if set back, quivilent to normal possitioning - max out at the same airflow reading as it normally would have done...

Makes sense... :wink:

Its been so long since i looked at the Datalogit Software..



Rishi
 
A

AJ4

Guest
RishiGTiR said:
So by doing that it would - if set back, quivilent to normal possitioning - max out at the same airflow reading as it normally would have done...
Click to expand...
you nobber, stop trying to wind me up :roll: :lol:

On a serious note though....

The standard MAF maxes out at say 5volts which indicates 200 cuft/min ( for example ). Putting it in a larger tube, it now maxes out at 5volts at 400 cuft/min. On the PFC you scale the voltage so that point 32 is 5volts to get full range. If your worried about the resolution between points, you make the first 16 points between 0 and 4 volts, and the last 16 points between 4 and 5 volts, so you have more resolution ( and finer control ) over the higher rpm range where you need it more ( like you should do with the standard maf anyway ).

Its no different from using a Z32 Maf, which you have to change the standard curve for anyway. All your doing is making the standard Maf output the same voltage as the Z32 at the same airflow. You still only have 32 points of control, no matter what Afm you use, so the spacing is the same ;)

Its not exactly rocket science ;) :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
boucherie

boucherie

New Member
cheers for the input so far guys. what i might do is keep the standard afm in place and use 2.5" pipe to the turbo as ive got 2.5" for the intercooler pipe run, so in theory i guess this would keep the air flow pressure the same on both sides of the turbo, or shall i just get 3" pipe all round and be done with it :D
 
Rishi

Rishi

Still waiting on some shims!
AJ4 said:
RishiGTiR said:
So by doing that it would - if set back, quivilent to normal possitioning - max out at the same airflow reading as it normally would have done...
Click to expand...
you nobber, stop trying to wind me up :roll: :lol:

On a serious note though....

The standard MAF maxes out at say 5volts which indicates 200 cuft/min ( for example ). Putting it in a larger tube, it now maxes out at 5volts at 400 cuft/min. On the PFC you scale the voltage so that point 32 is 5volts to get full range. If your worried about the resolution between points, you make the first 16 points between 0 and 4 volts, and the last 16 points between 4 and 5 volts, so you have more resolution ( and finer control ) over the higher rpm range where you need it more ( like you should do with the standard maf anyway ).

Its no different from using a Z32 Maf, which you have to change the standard curve for anyway. All your doing is making the standard Maf output the same voltage as the Z32 at the same airflow. You still only have 32 points of control, no matter what Afm you use, so the spacing is the same ;)

Its not exactly rocket science ;) :lol: :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...

Thats what i was meaning... :lol:

200 doubled to 400 in the larger tube but to bring the resolution back to standard it would max back at 200...

Or as you said you can just use an increased resolution at the higher voltage points - as thats where you really need it to be spot on mapping- and thus maxing at the increased 400...

Thats how i see it working anyway... Or is it the case that once you fit the MAF to a larger tube that it will always max out at higher air flow reading... And that you only have the choice of increasing resolution at one end of the scale by compromising resolution at the other...

I know its not rocket science... Although fixing an FPR seems to be for some... :lol: ... 5mpg anyone... :lol: :lol: :wink:



Rishi
 
A

AJ4

Guest
RishiGTiR said:
Although fixing an FPR seems to be for some... :lol: ... 5mpg anyone...
Click to expand...
lol, "touche", as the french say... :oops: he he

8) 8) 8)
 
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