rossdj1983
New Member
gone through a couple of old threads and it seems that after1.4 bar the stock ignition system doesnt like it to much, so my qeustion is what aftermarket system does everyone go for? and what will it max out at??
ignition max out??
- Thread starter rossdj1983
- Start date
seasider R
New Member
Hi mate.rossdj1983 said:
Its funny you should say that cos i was told today about that problem. Then looking on the mods club i saw the same thing! Micra Ed off the oc told me about the problem! Maybe if you dropped him a pm he might able to put you in the right direction!!! Good luck.
Major_Sarcasm
Member
I've seen 1.7 bar on the standard ignition with no missfires.
seasider R
New Member
Well if thats the case then i guess its try it and see cos there are so many contradictions with spec and what will do what and with what etc etc etc. Spose all cars are differant and what will work with one may not work with all. Anyone second that???????Major_Sarcasm said:
gtirx2
Member
I have behine looking in to this myself i have decided to go for the msd ignition set up with the blaster ss coil and the msd ignition control box;-)
Heres a couple of interesting threads
http://www.gtiroc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43340
http://www.gtiroc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42621&highlight=msd
Heres a couple of interesting threads
http://www.gtiroc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43340
http://www.gtiroc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42621&highlight=msd
Fusion Ed
Active Member
I can state now that I have NOT had a single pulsar over 1.6 bar (to be honest that does cut the numbers down quite a bit) that has not misfired at high rpm's. Perhaps the people who say that it doesn't happen to them are not able to get 1.6+ bar at 6000+ rpm? In truth however, I can only speak and comment from my own experience, and not others.
Ed
Ed
Major_Sarcasm
Member
Fair point. The boost does drop slightly at higher RPMs, so could well be around ~1.6 at 7000+ RPM
Also, I have only ran boost like that on a couple of occasions generally whilst pissing around with the AVC-R
Also, I have only ran boost like that on a couple of occasions
generally whilst pissing around with the AVC-R
I've been doing some more desk/practical research into this recently.
My car was running 1.7Bar on a 3071 at high rpm too with a 0.5mm plug gap but this was accurately measured at the compressor rather than the 1.6Bar measured at the inlet manifold with a damped analogue gauge. Broadly speaking RC developments experience is identical to Ed's with all the Pulsar's they've mapped too. They also felt the extra 0.1Bar was the straw that breaks the camel's back.
I believe this is the ragged edge of the standard system and is why changing from Magnecor back to OE leads at that point can make any significant difference. Plug "gap" resistance will have far more effect at high boost than any 5Kohm resistance difference or "Mega conductivity" hype the lead suppliers push.
I bought a Mallory coil and amp and can now run a more normal 0.65mm again on OE or Magnecor leads. For me the uprated amp makes the biggest difference to the OE setup in its ability to quickly saturate the coil at high rpm, the leads/cap/rotor are fine, the OE coil seems adequate at around 400hp. Changing the coil too means you can make better use of the amp. The MSD coil and amp that Steve P bought are equivalent to the Mallory, just make sure you buy the bits that Steve recommends and not any old coil that says blaster. I think some people have just used an HKS amp on a standard coil to good effect too. Maybe above 500hp the OE coil can't supply enough energy, I don't know, but if you've not already replaced your standard coil then a Mallory coil is cheaper anyway.
Incidentally, I am running on the standard leads again as the marginally higher resistance, 5-11Kohm vs 3-6Kohm for magnecor, should give marginally better duration at low rpm so give a smoother idle. That's the theory anyway. In practice, the Shortest OE lead's resistance is similar to the longest Magnecor lead so unless I start resistance matching my leads and making my gaps accurate to 0.01mm, this is more for the warm feeling it gives me inside than any scientific improvement.
My car was running 1.7Bar on a 3071 at high rpm too with a 0.5mm plug gap but this was accurately measured at the compressor rather than the 1.6Bar measured at the inlet manifold with a damped analogue gauge. Broadly speaking RC developments experience is identical to Ed's with all the Pulsar's they've mapped too. They also felt the extra 0.1Bar was the straw that breaks the camel's back.
I believe this is the ragged edge of the standard system and is why changing from Magnecor back to OE leads at that point can make any significant difference. Plug "gap" resistance will have far more effect at high boost than any 5Kohm resistance difference or "Mega conductivity" hype the lead suppliers push.
I bought a Mallory coil and amp and can now run a more normal 0.65mm again on OE or Magnecor leads. For me the uprated amp makes the biggest difference to the OE setup in its ability to quickly saturate the coil at high rpm, the leads/cap/rotor are fine, the OE coil seems adequate at around 400hp. Changing the coil too means you can make better use of the amp. The MSD coil and amp that Steve P bought are equivalent to the Mallory, just make sure you buy the bits that Steve recommends and not any old coil that says blaster. I think some people have just used an HKS amp on a standard coil to good effect too. Maybe above 500hp the OE coil can't supply enough energy, I don't know, but if you've not already replaced your standard coil then a Mallory coil is cheaper anyway.
Incidentally, I am running on the standard leads again as the marginally higher resistance, 5-11Kohm vs 3-6Kohm for magnecor, should give marginally better duration at low rpm so give a smoother idle. That's the theory anyway. In practice, the Shortest OE lead's resistance is similar to the longest Magnecor lead so unless I start resistance matching my leads and making my gaps accurate to 0.01mm, this is more for the warm feeling it gives me inside than any scientific improvement.
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rossdj1983
New Member
how many people are running 1.5 bar on standard then??
I assume your using or considering using a larger than standard turbo, as an after market turbo not much larger than the standard T28 will run 1.7 bar on the standard ignition.rossdj1983 said:
I was using a Turbo Dynamics MD214 (.86 ar turbine housing) at 1.6 - 1.7 for a while with no problems at all, it wasn't until I changed to the 3071R (also .86 ar turbine housing) that the standard ignition ran into problems at anything over 1.6 bar.
Just for the record the MD214 with the .86ar is as near as dam it the equivalent to the 2871r.
The MSD set up I have now is:
MSD HVC Blaster coil
MSD 6A Ignition amp box
Magnecor 8.5 leads
Denso IK27 Plugs gapped at 7.5
I have also just bought a wide band lambda controller and sensor which I plan to run permanently, hopefully this will allow me to monitor and map the lower RPM range with greater accuracy.
Jim, I see you mention you've moved the boost sensors pick up from the inlet plenum, where exactly have you put it and did you notice any significant improvements.
Steve
rossdj1983
New Member
yeah i gone bigger, i jumped on the 3071 bandwagon
Its taken off about 2 bends after the compressor outlet and before the intercooler just for ease of location. I did it on the advice of Dooie but couldn't say if its made any difference as I believe my elbow/exhaust are limiting surge anyway.stevepudney said:
It is useful to understand what the compressor is doing irrespective of the engine but ideally I'd like to monitor intake manifold for different reasons. I'm getting into this datalogging now ;-)
A man after my own heart, Cheers ed. Now I need more sensors BTW, how do you meaure pressure before the turbine? That must go through some sensors?
Fusion Ed
Active Member
you get a bit of thin metal break type pipe about a foot long and then from that you can usually put silicone hose onto it, since no flow really passes down them that is usually enough to stop heat transfer, then a few feet of silicone pipe or whatever ideally through a filter to a map sensor. Or you use an analogue gauge. I have a really old fashioned differential pressure gauge which is quite cool for this kind of stuff. It has two inputs, if you put it across an intercooler etc on its in and out it will show the differential pressure loss across the intercooler or whatever your testing over.
Ed
Ed