Hesitation Problem - Blazt Package Used, Queries?

[antgtir]

Ok, as stated in the title i have just used the Blazt software to interigate the ECU and sensors on the R.

Whilst carrying out this i noticed that during the build up to the infamous rev range (not in an aggressive manor, just a slow increase in throttle until enough to hit around the 5k mark) my problem occurs, the O2 sensor flickers from lean to rich i.e. 1 to 100 say. When i hit the infamous rev range at which the problem occurs i.e. 5k, the O2 sensor seems to hold at a low figure of say 2 to 5.

If during this test i put my foot to the floor and rev through this sticking point the O2 sensor stays low.

What i could do with is having a second opinion as to whether the O2 sensor would do this on an R that has no hesitation problems. If anyone has this facility and can shed some light id be grateful.

Many thanks,

Ant.

 

[frp]

ill plug mine in tonight and have a look is it any specific gear?
mine has a problem occasionally which I can only describe as lack of fuel/ignition (sounds like launch control) although its never at a fixed rpm. I'm going to try use the blatz to spot the problem although not really sure what I'm looking for

steve

 

[CanadianR]

I still have to finish making mine. :\ I need some cable and a serial connector for the laptop side.

 

[antgtir]

I still have to finish making mine. :\ I need some cable and a serial connector for the laptop side.

You should have just got the Blazt one off ebay mate, works a treat, has the correct ecu plug and also a usb plug for the laptop side.

FRP: Thanks mate, would be good to know if the sensor is supposed to stick, or indeed sticks when you experience your problem as it does sound similar to mine. If i hold mine i can make it pop and bang as if its launch control (although not as aggressive as that).

To be honest i think i will probably change the sensor anyway as they are a common thing to fail on the R and with this suspicious behaviour around the problem area im reasonably confident that the Lambda is the route of the problem and bain of my life lol:lol:

Will look forward to your findings.

Ant.

 

[Fusion Ed]

On full throttle wideband is ignored. The O2 gauge will just sit as it did when it was last working. AF Base will jump to 100% and fuelling is controlled by the map with no feedback.

See image here:

The highlighted cells is where the ECU is in closed loop, and the lambda sensor has an effect.

This is not a problem.

Ed

 

[antgtir]

Ed: So basically the lambda is only really working when the car is idleing? In which case wouldn't cause the problem im experiencing?

Is there anything that i should look out for on the datascan whilst testing? All other sensors do seem to work ok even during the problem occuring which is puzzling. Ive written another thread as to the problem im experiencing and the parts ive changed etc. The problem does seem to be related to either ignition or fueling, more like an ignition problem but i cant for the life of me see whats causing it. Its driving me insane to say the least.

Ant.

 

[Fusion Ed]

No the lambda sensor works upto 5200 rpm but light throttle. I.e. vacuum or very low boost, throttle not on the floor.

Send me a log from datascan of the problem. Ill let you know what I think.

 

[frp]

Ed is there anything important to look for when looking at fuel/ignition maps similar to above?

Ant does your problem occur after general steady driving or gentle acceleration going on to full throttle?? Mine does! but sometimes it will do it after changing up gears when flat out? (happens in straight lines and on corners) :frusty:

The problem can happen in 1st 2nd and 3rd gear have nt noticed it in 4th but experience it the other day at 150mph 5th gear after spanking a baby V8 aston. :lol:

steve

 

[Mr GTiR]

Ant does your problem occur after general steady driving or gentle acceleration going on to full throttle??

I don't think his car has ever seen full throttle :lol: :lol: :lol: :shock:

 

[Fusion Ed]

Ed is there anything important to look for when looking at fuel/ignition maps similar to above?

steve

Depends what you mean. In context of what is going on at a said time, yes. You need to see where the car goes into the map to really know what's going on. You can get a rough idea of how the car should drive on a map like that. The map above is a stock RNN14 fuel map, so its pretty smooth and under full load would be a bit too rich.

Ed

 

[antgtir]

No the lambda sensor works upto 5200 rpm but light throttle. I.e. vacuum or very low boost, throttle not on the floor.

Send me a log from datascan of the problem. Ill let you know what I think.

Ok mate thanks for that, ill have to go out tom and record another run as for some reason the logging stopped at 3400rpm and the problem occurs around the 5000rpm:roll:

The problem does seem to occur more on partial throttle i.e. building up to 5000rpm slowely (not aggressive at all) which again maybe suggests the Lambda.

If you can look at the data though that would be fantastic, second pair of eyes and all that

Ill pm you regarding your email address to send the data to.

Ant does your problem occur after general steady driving or gentle acceleration going on to full throttle?? Mine does! but sometimes it will do it after changing up gears when flat out? (happens in straight lines and on corners)

Mine is gentle throttle, if you put your foot to the floorit can drive through it and not really feel anything however you can sometimes hear a pop from the exhaust as if the fuelling or ignition isn't quite right. Generally it only happens around the 5000rpm mark on partial throttle. At first i though it may be something to do with the TPS but that seems to be working ok from the datascan.

I also looked at the AF Base and Timing maps and they seemed to be moving ok as in progressive and good steps etc although im no expert to say the least lol. Hopefully Ed will be able to let me know if its something identifiable to a trained eye from the data i send him.

I don't think his car has ever seen full throttle

I cant help it my legs cant reach :lol:

Cheers,

Ant.;-)

 

[frp]

Took these today off the blatz.

MAP TRACE

DATA REPLAY

steve

 

[Fusion Ed]

Steve your AF base is a long way from where it should be. Have you upped the fuel pressure or anything on this car?

 

[frp]

The fuel pressure was set by the tuner i used a while ago. the car has since been mapped by matt @trl he did mention he was nt happy with the fuel pressure (but he did not change it cant remember the reason)and also the ignition? im back there soon. could this be the cause of my problem
steve

 

[antgtir]

Ed: Am i able to send you the file from mine as suggested? Dont worry if you cant, however if you can id value your opinion. Just let me know where to send it to.

Many thanks,

Ant.

 

[antgtir]

Steve your AF base is a long way from where it should be. Have you upped the fuel pressure or anything on this car?

With regards to your comment on frp's A/F Base, if his is high then so is mine lol, in fact higher. The only change ive made is to replace the OE fuel pump with the 255l/hr Walbro pump (this was another thing i changed to see if i could rid myself of this problem).

However can this ratio be altered by abnormal running i.e. high emissions? Ever since this prob started i have had issues at MOT time with emissions, i wasn't happy just placing the CAT on to get it through but at the time needs must etc, previous to this the car sailed through with flying colours on the emissions test.

Thanks for the help.

Ant.

 

[frp]

With regards to your comment on frp's A/F Base, if his is high then so is mine lol, in fact higher. The only change ive made is to replace the OE fuel pump with the 255l/hr Walbro pump (this was another thing i changed to see if i could rid myself of this problem).

Ant i also have a walbro and bigger injectors too but i expect this has little to do with the problem. Out of interest whats yours?

Ed what should it be roughly?

steve

 

[antgtir]

Ant i also have a walbro and bigger injectors too but i expect this has little to do with the problem. Out of interest whats yours?

Ed what should it be roughly?

steve

Was around 90 mark. This was on my "problem" run and at the end when i was idling so not 100% sure if this is realistic.

What did you notice your O2 sensor doing whilst in your problem area?

Ant.

 

[Kenny]

With regards to your comment on frp's A/F Base, if his is high then so is mine lol, in fact higher. The only change ive made is to replace the OE fuel pump with the 255l/hr Walbro pump (this was another thing i changed to see if i could rid myself of this problem).

However can this ratio be altered by abnormal running i.e. high emissions? Ever since this prob started i have had issues at MOT time with emissions, i wasn't happy just placing the CAT on to get it through but at the time needs must etc, previous to this the car sailed through with flying colours on the emissions test.

Thanks for the help.

Ant.

FRP's A/F Base is very, very low (i.e. running very, very Rich) @ 75 (7.5-1), also the duty cycle is going off the scale 110%+ peak :?

My car is still very rich @ 9.5-1 after a run.

 

[Fusion Ed]

Kenny thats not right. AFR base is the correction value used to attain lambda=1 in closed loop. Its just having to remove a load of fuel to do so. If the lambda sensor broke the ECU defaults to AFR Base = 100 and THEN it will run pig rich. I should add this would be whilst in closed loop. Once out of it i.e. full throttle it will use only the fuel map with temo correction and chances are again you would be very rich. (kenny would be right here, although I dont think you would be less than 10:1 or it would struggle to even run.)

THIS I should point out is a VERY Clear example of WHY you cannot map for closed loop operation. The sock ECU is VERY good at correcting its closed loop map to protect itself and the engine from being too rich or lean. And since your in closed loop even at 70 on a motorway its impossible if your sensors are working the way they should be to kill an engine from either over or under fuelling.

Anyway, back to this. The AFR base works like this 100 is no correction. Greater than 100 the ECU is having to ADD fuel (i.e. base settings are too low, fuel pressure or injectors blocked/too small) if your less than 100 injectors are too large or fuel pressure is too high.

90-105 is acceptable. Ideally you want to be on the richer side of 100 rather than the leaner side (100+)

And Steve YES I would say that IS why your car is behaving odd, almost certainly. Timing is normal for the data you have provided, assuming your timing is set right. Although I would need to see a data log as it looks as though your probably going off the load mapping on your fuel map on full throttle (not ideal). I would possibly risk suggesting that the car has been setup with external aids without being done at the route source (i.e. the ECU) and so your suffering because of it.

Ant, send your log to info@fusion-motorsport.co.uk and I shall take a look for you.

Ed