Good mapping

[fubar andy]

After a lengthy conversation today regarding mapping, there’s one question that’s still on my mind…

What is the best process for mapping a car?

On the road

Or

On a rolling road (or both?)

If you could explain why you think that one is better than the other (or both if you think that’s most beneficial)

Cost isn't an issue when it comes to mapping, but I do want to ensure that when it comes mapping I know what to look for, what to disregard and know that what i'm getting isn't a quick 2hour map of which the quality could be total shite! :doh:

 

[Mr GTiR]

Just give it to Uncle Ian and he'll take care of the rest ;-)

 

[stumo]

both.

 

[fubar andy]

No offence Andy, but that's the exact question I don’t want! :?

I want to see what else is available, why people would choose a rolling road to a road map (or the other way around)?

Telling me to “give someone my car and you’ll be fine” isn’t going to educate me about mapping or what’s going on with my car.

I’d like to know a little about the differences between the two methods and see which if any is better.;-)

 

[PaulB]

Ideally, its neither. Most racing teams would have there engine bench dyno`d.

The big disadvantage to road mapping is having to accelerate to speeds that break limits and could get you banned (limiter in 3rd). although its best for actual road conditions.

Rolling road however is fine in that you wont get banned, but the rolling road doesnt quite take into account wind resistance etc, but i guess this is negligable, and a compromise has to be reached.

Rolling road at The Racing Line is Halifax for me, Matt there is a top fella (Y)

 

[sadsy]

Thats where im off on monday, hmm mapping or new suspension????! will tell you all how it goes on monday

 

[Rishi]

Ideally, its neither. Most racing teams would have there engine bench dyno`d.

The big disadvantage to road mapping is having to accelerate to speeds that break limits and could get you banned (limiter in 3rd). although its best for actual road conditions.

Rolling road however is fine in that you wont get banned, but the rolling road doesnt quite take into account wind resistance etc, but i guess this is negligable, and a compromise has to be reached.

Rolling road at The Racing Line is Halifax for me, Matt there is a top fella (Y)

This is also why they use the likes of Bruntingthorpe for road mapping... ;-)

There are some very lengthy threads on both MLR and 22B on this topic. Commented on by many of the UK mappers! Some great detail into the workings of a Dyno and detail into Road Mapping etc. You'll be there quite a while reading through it all...



Rishi

 

[Fusion Ed]

IMO road is an acceptable compromise, and is fine for piggyback work (to a point), RR+road is better and often necessary for a from scratch map, track+RR is the best. However if you ever plan to race on a track you should really have it mapped/checked under the same conditions.

I have done quite a few maps totally from scratch now (literally tables full of zeros). A road is not suitable for this. Rolling road is best for this since you can monitor everything, and you can get close to done. Then you jump onto a track or road and put real life load on the car to check that everything is spot on. A track is immensely more stressful than a road, and really essential if the car is going to be used regularly under these conditions. Bruntingthrope for example was excellent when I did some work there.

 

[youngsyp]

I agree with Micra Ed.
I can understand that a rolling road would be ideal for 'rough' mapping a from scratch map but, road mapping has to be the best way to map a road car (not taking into account speed restrictions etc...) ?! From a logical point of view, mapping it on the road would be the best solution as that's the environment the car is used in. All air flow, load and aero dynamic factors are the same and so, the map would be more accurate ?!

On a dyno, in a dyno cell you'll never get the air flow over the car right. The dyno maybe able to simulate road like load on the wheels but, it won't take into account the load on the engine created by aero dynamics, or lack of ?!

 

[Fusion Ed]

Agree, the trouble is you cannot ignore road rules, and as such it imposes quite allot of restrictions on how far you can actually test things. It becomes more difficult the faster/more powerful the car is as its entirely possible that within a few seconds you would be well in excess of the speed limit, so not only will the car be going faster the time you have to see what is going on is also shorter. Quite often you also have to be much more precise on a higher powered car as they are quite often running closer to their limits. Really in these conditions only a track will do.

 

[youngsyp]

Agree, the trouble is you cannot ignore road rules, and as such it imposes quite allot of restrictions on how far you can actually test things. It becomes more difficult the faster/more powerful the car is as its entirely possible that within a few seconds you would be well in excess of the speed limit, so not only will the car be going faster the time you have to see what is going on is also shorter. Quite often you also have to be much more precise on a higher powered car as they are quite often running closer to their limits. Really in these conditions only a track will do.

Definitely food for thought !

 

[fubar andy]

Thanks for eveyones input.

So, in a nut shell, it would be advisable to start on a rolling road to allow a main set up and afterwards fine tune the map with realistic road mapping?

Rishi - "lengthy", you weren’t kidding!!! :shock:
I spent almost 2 hours reading what MLR had to say, and some interesting debates...

 

[PaulB]

the cost of doing a live road map on a strip or track is huge tho? So realistically, to do it in a safe manner, the RR is the way forward?

 

[Fusion Ed]

not always, you can get good results on the road.

 

[campbellju]

Thanks for eveyones input.

So, in a nut shell, it would be advisable to start on a rolling road to allow a main set up and afterwards fine tune the map with realistic road mapping?

Are you doing it yourself Andy or are you dong what Andy C suggested anyway ;-)

Stu and I can bore the hind legs off you this weekend about mapping if you want.

Oh and my answer would be both

 

[DanDud]

From what i have heard off Stu about mapping him and Jim will be able to explain to you in GREAT detail whats involved Andy. If you can take in that much info in a short amount of time lol. From what iv heard it is pretty interesting stuff and when iv got the time off uni im hoping to learn a lot more about it.

 

[micra man]

its scarey going on in the vehicle being mapped on the road great fun though , but chances of been nabbed or reported to the police are huge.
still tink road mapping is best cos thats were cars gonna be on the road

 

[fubar andy]

Stu and I can bore the hind legs off you this weekend about mapping if you want.

I think the main question Jim is whether I’m sure of myself to map my own car? :roll:

I’m always up for learning and understanding more, I’ll be more than happy to spend time learning about how to self map.
As Dan mentioned, to learn something like this in a short time is something that will be challenging but i’m always interested in learning new things.

So yes, I’ll be happy to learn as much as possible over the weekend and after that if possible…

Mapping for dummies v1.0 – here I come!

 

[R called Jay]

You can do so much more on a rolling road than you can live, in the same space of time, that it makes more sense to map the car on the dyno and then tweak it on the road/track.

Mapping from scratch on the road is a long tedious job that I'd not recommend to anyone as it is so difficult to replicate certain loadings, with certain boost at certain throttle positions.

But on the dyno I believe you can load the engine to where you want to map and go through the different stages of your map piece by piece.

 

[turblio]

Just a quick pointer here. if you are flooring your R out of a bend you need the cars map to allow for the resistance that is being placed on the drivetrain this involves quite a few parameters that are very difficult to replicate on a rolling road, so I would agree fully that the car needs a good set up after the rolling eoad