Eagle Rods

[CruiseGTi-R]

I know its been covered lots, but can someone confirm the following, the last point being the most important:

1). Eagle rods are lighter than stock rods, so they’ll give slight benefit to revving performance.

2). The machining required to fit ACL or Nissan 19mm bearings can be done easily and cheaply by my local machinist (he hasn’t got to be a rocket scientist).

3). Once machined for 19mm bearings do the Eagle rods actually use the full 19mm width of the bearings? Is the load on the rod distributed across the 19mm width of the bearing just like stock rods, not distributed over 17mm bearing width even if you’ve managed to bodge in the 19mm bearings?

 

[jpward]

I know its been covered lots, but can someone confirm the following, the last point being the most important:

1). Eagle rods are lighter than stock rods, so they’ll give slight benefit to revving performance.

2). The machining required to fit ACL or Nissan 19mm bearings can be done easily and cheaply by my local machinist (he hasn’t got to be a rocket scientist).

3). Once machined for 19mm bearings do the Eagle rods actually use the full 19mm width of the bearings? Is the load on the rod distributed across the 19mm width of the bearing just like stock rods, not distributed over 17mm bearing width even if you’ve managed to bodge in the 19mm bearings?

Yes less mass makes for easier reving engine i think eagles are 300gms lighter

You dont need to go to the bother of maching notches just use the 17mm bearings from ACL but if you did machine them yes you would use the whole 19mm as the tang would sit further to the outside but if S14's can make 500 brake on 17mm i am inclined to think they will do fine ;-)

PM Odin he's a fan of Eagles

 

[stumo]

Don't bother with Eagle rods, they're only marginally better (if at all) than the stock rods so i'm told.

I got some Pauter rods from http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Erics-Performance-Parts_Connecting-Rods_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ12707206QQftidZ2QQtZkm

 

[PaulB]

so i'm told

:lol:

Ok, there not a GTiR specific rod, but when i fitted them to mine, i got them machined for £40, to take the 19mm ACL race bearings.

To say there not any better than a std rod is ok, aslong as a std rod is proven at 400bhp, both will do the job the same.

But the H beam Eagle rod is a 650bhp rated rod, and is a proven product in a lot of stroked EVO engines, with 600bhp+.

To say there no better than a std rod is misleading.

 

[ashills]

now they have been used for a while some of the yanks are starting to rate them to 900 now who knows how much power they will take but more than your transmission will so i would just stick some in and not have to worry again

the standard rods have no doubt seen alot of abuse by this time in there life aswell and bet they werent xrayed etc by nissan like the eagles are and arp bolts are nearly half the cost of a set of rods if bought from usa

 

[CruiseGTi-R]

....and the Pauters are TWICE the price.

Can someone tell me why people buy Pauters over Eagles?

 

[Keira]

....and the Pauters are TWICE the price.

Can someone tell me why people buy Pauters over Eagles?

PAUTER RODS

E4340 vacuum melt chrome moly forging – CNC machined

Heat-treated to Rockwell C36; full coverage shotpeened; end-to-end balanced in sets.

Each rod comes standard with ARP 2000 bolts rated at 220,000 psi tensile strength.

Aluminum-bronze wrist pin bushings (standard.) EDM pressure-fed oiling to pin (available at extra cost.)

Custom pin diameters and center-to-center rod lengths can be ordered at no additional cost. High-performance bearings, tool steel wrist pins and forged aluminum pistons can be ordered specifically coordinated to your rod order (please inquire.)

The following list is a sampling of popular rods for all crank driven engines. It is by no means a complete listing. Keep in mind that we are geared for the production of custom sizes in nearly all engine series.

Years of hands-on experience, working with rods of all shapes and materials, of all types of racing and racing-related abuse, with design failures (and successes), has resulted in a fairly comprehensive file on just what works - and what doesn't - on the subject of high performance connecting rods. From this body of knowledge we have selected and incorporated the elements into what it is we think a great rod should be. Right off, our rod looks different, that's obvious, but for some not so obvious and very good reasons.

For starters, the simple beam design completely eliminates thin and non-uniform cross sections over the total length of the beam. This feature greatly improves resistance to crack-induced metal fatigue. In addition, the non-tapered profile of the beam helps to spread potentially harmful stress over a larger area, dispersing instead of concentrating these destructive loads. The design also efficiently places needed material in critical transitional areas, giving maximum support exactly where it is needed (such as directly under the wrist pin). The streamlined contour also provides subtle benefits in the form of windage reduction. The main beam rib itself continues around the wrist pin boss, perfectly integrating the beam to the pin boss, a small, but important contribution to overall structural unity. Pauter rods are indeed, different by design.

EAGLE RODS

All Eagle "ESP" Connecting Rods are manufactured from a TWO-PIECE FORGING. The forging process forces the grain into the shape of a connecting rod, resulting in a superior fatigue life. The rod cap is forged separately so that the grain runs perpendicular to the load forces, which strengthens the connecting rod. Many aftermarket connecting rods are manufactured from 4340 steel. 4340 specs allow a range of different materials to achieve the desired results. Although it is a more expensive process, all Eagle "ESP" 3-D connecting rods also include higher content of nickel & chrome, which increases the strength & fatigue life without making the connecting rod brittle.

Extensive testing has proven Eagle's two-piece forging superior to any one-piece forging on the market! All Eagle "ESP" Rods are clearly identified. Proper rod bolt torque is vital to connecting rod life. A rod bolt fastner is without question the highest stressed fastener in the engine. The big end bore of the connecting rod is a stressed bore in much the same way as cylinders are on a block. It is equally important to torque properly to provide proper strength & to insure the big end of the rod sizing is correct. Improper torque will result in premature rod failure!

So why choose pauters, or any other aftermarket rod over eagles then ?

Basically, the 'blank' eagle rods are forged in china where manufacturing costs are cheap, they are then finished in the states, the pauters are made completely from start to finish in the us, this is why theres a price difference. Personally i wouldn't use eagles and have had pauters sat there for some time now :roll: :lol:

I have never heard of any failures on pauter rods in any engine but theres a been a fair few recorded failures on eagles when you start hunting about.

 

[marcymarc]

If you do a google search on the eagle rods there seems to be alot of critisism towards them on a lot of forums.

 

[Keira]

some quotes from engine builders/tuners from another forum i use regarding rods :

Eagle rods, in my opinion, are a sub-par product. In the links to the threads with the customers making big power, honestly, they got lucky. For all of the dyno graphs that you see me making big power on Eagle rods, there is at least twice that of horror stories that I have personally seen while tuning cars on Eagle rods. Obviously, these never make it to the dyno graph forum on my site. I have seen the big end of the rod stretch and spin bearings, or worse, having the rod cap pulled off the rod and having the piston smash into the cylinder head. If you do an FEA analysis of the big end of the rod, you'd clearly be able to see why it distorts and spins bearings. With a quality rod (like Manley or Pauter), I've NEVER had a single issue like I've experienced with the Eagles. I cringe every time I tune a car with Eagle rods because I don't know what will happen down the road to the customer's engine. The rods aren't the only Eagle product that have an issue. The cranks are just as bad, if not worse. What I'm saying is not fabricated or something I heard from my friend who had his brother's car tuned somewhere else. I've experienced this firsthand many times on my dyno. The only thing I can think of with the people who get lucky with the rods is that the quality control in that particular batch was good. A rod failure can ruin your crank, sleeve, and cylinder head. You can get Manley rods for about $300.00 more than the Eagle rods, which is a drop in the bucket when you are building your engine. Is it worth the little extra money now as opposed to a lot more later. Manley and Pauter have been proven up to 10-11K rpms and 40+ pounds of boost without rod failure or spun bearings. While I do have a few graphs posted of some high hp cars using Eagle rods, it's not something I'd recommend or even do for my own engine.

Bottom line is I have more experience with high hp engines than anyone on here, and from my experience, I will never use a crower rod again. I don't care what anyone says about pauter's design or weight, I've seen them work time and time again when others have failed. That's enough reason for me

I've seen a bunch of crower rods stretch and have bushings wear out, I'd take Pauter any day of the week over Crower

Eagles will be prone to spin bearings rather than break bolts. The area around the bolt is critical to the quality rod and this is the last spot that most people consider. Even with the new bolt, I still would not trust the in the area of 400whp and 9000 rpms or so.
BTW, do not believe anything you hear from Eagle tech help. They will tell you it is a 900hp rod. Complete idiots

i know alot of people that run pauters....ive never herd of a rod failure from pauter . ive seen bent pauters from a destroyed motor , but the rod didnt fail......i have yet to see a pauter rod let go and it be determined that the rod was the weakest link

problem with our engines/sr's in general is theres so very few built to a high spec and raced that theres not alot of info about what breaks and what doesn't, once you start looking further afield though you begin to find more and more info on products 8)

at the end of the day, you pays your money your makes your choice

 

[marcymarc]

I know basically nothing about engines etc as most of you already know, but since my engine siezed ive been doing loads of research on various parts, and all i have read about the eagle rods is bad bad bad.

If you read through alot of the USA forums etc all the eagle rods get is a poor write up.

Theres no chance they are going in my car and thats a fact.

 

[CruiseGTi-R]

...can someone give me the correct Pauter rod type number?

Is it simply this one?:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pauter-Rods-X-Beam-Nissan-SR20DET-SR20DE-S13-S14-S15_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33623QQihZ008QQitemZ180144611697QQtcZphoto

Whats the deal with the 'pressure fed oiling' to the pin? Did you guys bother with this?

You bastards, making me spend an extra 230 quid...

 

[campbellju]

Eagle rods, in my opinion, are a sub-par product.

Worse than my PAR rods :shock: now that IS bad :lol: :lol:

 

[campbellju]

You bastards, making me spend an extra 230 quid...

then stick with your OE rods Toby, Steve P is using my old ones, I think he just had them shot peened and some new bolts. My PAR rods needed £200 of additional machining to make them right and they're still not great now. I've seen Stu's Pauters and they are excellent but in the 400sih HP range, do you really need them?

 

[Odin]

My PAR rods needed £200 of additional machining to make them right and they're still not great now.

:doh: That's pretty funny because mine where perfect right out of the box, Agra took one look at them a said they where some of the best rods they'd ever seen ;-) .

You must of got a friday afternoon set mate :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: , That or your machine shop are muppets ;-) .





Rob

 

[CruiseGTi-R]

I'm fine spending the extra on the Pauters over the Eagles.

I doubt the Eagles would ever fail if I run 400bhp but if there is any question over quality (and they are amazingly cheap) then it'll always bug me.

Come on, which are the right Pauters? I want 19mm correct fit for GTiR. At least if I get Pauters I wanna get the right ones which don't need bugaring about with machining for 19mm etc.

 

[stumo]

You need to ask for GTiR specific rods, Erics don't have a part number for it.

 

[pulsarboby]

then stick with your OE rods Toby, Steve P is using my old ones, I think he just had them shot peened and some new bolts. My PAR rods needed £200 of additional machining to make them right and they're still not great now. I've seen Stu's Pauters and they are excellent but in the 400sih HP range, do you really need them?

i agree with jim
the standard rods if tested and shotpeened are supposedly good for in excess of 500bhp.
im still gonna use the standard rods in my rebuild, cant see the point in spending a load of extra money, unless like robbie and the weasel etc, your planning in running a very high powered engine! could be money down the drain in the long run.

 

[campbellju]

:doh: That's pretty funny because mine where perfect right out of the box, Agra took one look at them a said they where some of the best rods they'd ever seen ;-) .

You must of got a friday afternoon set mate :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: , That or your machine shop are muppets ;-) .

Rob

I think actually it was a Monday morning after a particularily heavy weekend and they were still half pi**ed :lol: :lol:

before balancing there was IIRC 11g difference between the lightest and heaviest. the expensive bit was having to get the notch for the shell bearing put on the correct side of the rod :shock: as they'd put it in the wrong place :der:

All the time, me and my engine builder mate kept saying, how can something that looks so good be manufactured so poorly :?

I don't doubt they will take a Gazillion HP now but it was a complete pain in the wotsit. Incidentally, that clutch and flywheel setup of mine you've got made a far bigger difference to revvability than the engine

 

[LOU ROB]

I took the plunge and fitted the eagle esp. At the end of the day, My engine won't see the rev range that has the reports of the eagles failing. If I wanted to rev my engine to 9K + rpm's, I would have bought a vtec honda.

I chose the eagles over the crower because I heard a lot of bad reports on the crower over the eagles.

Mike adkins uses eagles with no problems at all and so do the a lot of the 8 sec evo's and skylines in new zealand and australia. The 3.0 kits for the skylines also use eagle rods.

I wanted to go for the pauter, but funds didn't allow at the time.

 

[Odin]

before balancing there was IIRC 11g difference between the lightest and heaviest.

That's shocking :doh: :shock: , mine where 5g between the lightest and the heaviest and I did speak to Par about it and was told that they where balanced end to end so shouldn't be touched :? .

I had no problem with the bearing tags though :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: , But I think Agra did match the weights but it didn't cost me much at all in man hours ;-) .

Mind you I've had my rods a longer than you I think ?, I bought them about 5 years ago :shock: , They've just been sitting in the garage collecting dust ever since , So maybe they went down hill in later years lol