Beware of the labelling on oil cans!

oilman

Member
I'm posting this here because it's of general interest to all Members and it is fact not fiction so it's worth a read

Due to the court case in the states between Mobil and Castrol, you may not always be getting what you think you are so be careful, hydrocracked oils are not synthetics in the true sense of the word as they are molecularly converted petroleum oils, synthetics are not, they are built by chemists in laboratories "brick by brick" and are far superior.

Unfortunately, apart from in Germany, a manufacturer can label the inferior "hydrocracked" oils as synthetics and therefore the only true way of working out the quality is price although even this is not certain as there are some very expensive "hydrocracked" oils out there which are sold on their brand name, Castrol is a good example as they were the Company that Mobil took to court over the labelling issues.

Here is some more reading for those interested:

“HYDROCRACKED” (HC) or MOLECULARLY CONVERTED (MC) BASESTOCKS

There are many petroleum oils available on the market that are so pure and refined, they can now be passed off as synthetics.
They are not made from true synthetic basestocks (at least not in the way that synthetics have traditionally been defined), but they have so little in common with traditional
petroleum basestocks, it is really somewhat silly to classify them as petroleum oils.
Petroleum oil basestocks can be put through a super-extreme refining process called
“hydrocracking”. In some cases, as in the case of one particular name-brand "synthetic" oil, these highly refined petroleum basestocks can actually be termed and sold as "synthetic".
It is completely legal for lubricants manufacturers to label these oils as "synthetic".

These are extremely high performance petroleum basestocks, but they are not truly synthetic the way that most people understand the term and will not necessarily perform to the same level as a premium synthetic oil like PAO (poly alfa olefins) or Esters.

Hydrocracking involves changing the actual structure of many of the oil basestock molecules by breaking and fragmenting different molecular structures into far more stable ones. This results in a basestock which has far better thermal and oxidative stability as well as a better ability to maintain proper viscosity through a wide temperature range - when compared to a typical petroleum basestock.

Although contaminants are still present, and these are still petroleum basestocks, contamination is minimal and performance characteristics are high. This process also can turn a wider range of crude oil stock into well-performing petroleum lubricant basestocks.

TYPES OF SYNTHETIC BASESTOCKS

Synthetic basestocks are not all the same. There are few different chemical types that may be used as synthetic basestock fluids. There are only three that are seen commonly in automotive applications:

Polyalphaolefins (PAO's)
These are the most common synthetic basestocks used in the US and in Europe. In fact, many synthetics on the market use PAO basestocks exclusively. PAO's are also called synthesized hydrocarbons and contain absolutely no wax, metals, sulfur or phosphorous. Viscosity indexes for nearly all PAO's are around 150, and they have extremely low pour points (normally below –40 degrees F).
Although PAO's are also very thermally stable, there are a couple of drawbacks to using PAO basestocks. One drawback to using PAO's is that they are not as oxidatively stable as other synthetics. But, when properly additized, oxidative stability can be achieved.

Diesters
These synthetic basestocks offer many of the same benefits of PAO's but are more varied in structure. Therefore, their performance characteristics vary more than PAO's do. Nevertheless, if chosen carefully, diesters generally provide better pour points than PAO's
(about -60 to -80 degrees F) and are a little more oxidatively stable when properly additized.
Diesters also have very good inherent solvency characteristics which means that not only do they burn cleanly, they also clean out deposits left behind by other lubricants - even without the aid of detergency additives.
They do have one extra benefit though, they are surface-active (electrostatically attracted to metal surfaces), PAO’s are not “polar”, they are “inert”.

Polyolesters
Similar to diesters, but slightly more complex. Greater range of pour points and viscosity indexes than diesters, but some polyolester basestocks will outperform diesters with pour points as low as -90 degrees F and viscosity indexes as high as 160 (without VI additive improvers). They are also “polar”.

Other synthetic basestocks exist but are not nearly as widely used as those above - especially in automotive type applications. Most synthetics on the market will use a single PAO basestock combined with an adequate additive package to provide a medium quality synthetic lubricant. However, PAO basestocks are not all the same. Their final lubricating characteristics depend on the chemical reactions used to create them.

Premium quality synthetics will blend more than one "species" of PAO and/or will blend these PAO basestocks with a certain amount of diester or polyolester in order to create a basestock which combines all of the relative benefits of these different basestocks.

This requires a great deal of experience and expertise. As a result, such basestock blending is rare within the synthetic lubricants industry and only done by very experienced companies. In addition, although such blending creates extremely high quality synthetic oils, they don't come cheap. You get what you pay for! Or do you?

You can find downloadable technical data on oils here:
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm

Cheers
Guy
 

geetee

Active Member
SO is CastrolRS hydrocracked or truely synthetic?

AND does it actually matter cos it seems pretty damn good.

Cheers
GeeTee 8)
 

oilman

Member
geetee said:
SO is CastrolRS hydrocracked or truely synthetic?

AND does it actually matter cos it seems pretty damn good.

Cheers
GeeTee 8)
Castrol RS is hydrocracked. its fine if your doing regular inconvenient oil changes. It will shear down a lot quicker than a PAO or ESTER.

Cheers

Guy.
 

oilman

Member
Millers we can't get enough info to decide and ester/pao is not mentioned from what I can see. Hard to say really but more likely "hydrocracked" like 90% of the oils out there today.

Take a look at the Silkolene PRO S and PRO R range specs here:

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm

Cheers
Simon
 

youngsyp

Active Member
Simon,
Thanks for this info, it's very interesting and does get you thinking. I have switched from Mobil 1 15w50 to Motul 300v 15w50. I seem to remember that the Mobil said it uses ester technology and I have the Motul can in front of me and it says it uses "double ester technology". Are these companies lying or, are they genuine ?

Out of interest, how much do you sell the Silkolene stuff for if my Motul oil is in fact sh!te ?

Cheers

Paul
 

fil_gtir

Member
I have used Silkolene Pro-S for the last 4 years.

When I took my car to Nissan to have a noise looked at they said the oil I was using was no good, was causing sludge, and that I should flush it out and change brand of oil. He said Silkolene use remanufactured or recycled oil, or something like that, sounded crap to me but I have just bought some Castrol RS only to find out thats not as good.

Is Silkolene Pro S any good? Should i carry on using it or change to Castrol RS?

Cheers

Phil
 

geetee

Active Member
Every place you go says that the competitors oil is made from ground up rat droppings.

Garages and service centres make great dosh on oil.

For e.g.

I'm in the middle of doing some IT work for a large mortorcycle dealer and servicer in Central London.

They are kitting out a new mahoosive workshop. I mean 30000 sq ft +

They have done a deal with their oil company (who will remain nameless). The Oil firm have paid for all new hydraulic lift benches. All the pnuematics install. All the flooring.

All for a certain commitment to buy X 100 thousand litres of oil over 3 years. The oil still works out cheaper than they were currently payin by over 50%.

And yes... it's a very very well respected brand.

So the next time some monkey says that X brand is the bollox but Y brand is made from donkey droppings and will cause ur engine to sludge up. Think.

Cheers
GeeTee 8)
 

oilman

Member
fil_gtir said:
I have used Silkolene Pro-S for the last 4 years.

When I took my car to Nissan to have a noise looked at they said the oil I was using was no good, was causing sludge, and that I should flush it out and change brand of oil. He said Silkolene use remanufactured or recycled oil, or something like that, sounded crap to me but I have just bought some Castrol RS only to find out thats not as good.

Is Silkolene Pro S any good? Should i carry on using it or change to Castrol RS?
Silkolene is certainly not recycled and certainly not crap. It's a proper synthetic ester/pao blend and top quality at that.

Read the tech sheet: http://www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm

RS 10w-60 = Hydrocracked
Silkolene PRO S or R = Ester/PAO

You can email me fpr prices, sell Castrol, Mobil, Silkolene, Fuchs and Total.

sales@opieoils.co.uk

Cheers
Simon
 

oilman

Member
geetee said:
Every place you go says that the competitors oil is made from ground up rat droppings.

Garages and service centres make great dosh on oil.

For e.g.

I'm in the middle of doing some IT work for a large mortorcycle dealer and servicer in Central London.

They are kitting out a new mahoosive workshop. I mean 30000 sq ft +

They have done a deal with their oil company (who will remain nameless). The Oil firm have paid for all new hydraulic lift benches. All the pnuematics install. All the flooring.

All for a certain commitment to buy X 100 thousand litres of oil over 3 years. The oil still works out cheaper than they were currently payin by over 50%.

And yes... it's a very very well respected brand.

So the next time some monkey says that X brand is the bollox but Y brand is made from donkey droppings and will cause ur engine to sludge up. Think.

Cheers
GeeTee 8)
WELL DONE, good post and the truth, don't listen to the BS, talk to people like us who sell 5 different brands and have the technical data to back up our statements plus chemical analysis where necessary.

Cheers
Simon
 
J

J-GTi-R

Guest
Thanks for posting that up, it's makes for very interesting reading!!

I take it as Mobil took Castrol to court, Mobil's Mobil 1 synthetics are PAO/Ester?
 

oilman

Member
They are PAO, and a good quality oil, I would only give esters the edge because they are "polar".

Cheers
 

hmmm

Member
...

Power station use the Silkolene 15w50 oil and they are regarded as top for tuning r's.

Out of interest, what would you recommend as the best gearbox oil for the r? Most people here use Redline MT-90...what's your opinion on this oilman?
 

oilman

Member
R-Type said:
Hey Oilman...Have you analysed Royal Purple range of oils?
Not yet. If you can send me a sample I will have it analysed, we are waiting for reports on redline and valvoline at the moment.

Cheers
 

oilman

Member
Re: ...

hmmm said:
Power station use the Silkolene 15w50 oil and they are regarded as top for tuning r's.

Out of interest, what would you recommend as the best gearbox oil for the r? Most people here use Redline MT-90...what's your opinion on this oilman?
The GTI-R calls for a 75w-90 fully or semisynthetic and it takes 4.1 litres of the stuff.

I was talking to someone the other day who said he found a fully synth a bit slippy for his GTI-R, I asked another GTI-R owner locally and he prefered fullysynth in his gear box, I guess its trial and error. As long as it meets the specs needed, play around and find the one you are happy with. I would start with the Silkolene Syn 5 75w-90 ester based synthetic, the ester in gear oil helps with load on the gear teeth as ester is shear stable.

Hope this helps,

cheers

Guy. :D
 
O

Odin

Guest
The fullysynth oil works well but don't put another additive in such as nulon like I did :roll: as it will f**k your syncro's like it did in my quaife box costing me £700 for a rebuild.


rob
 
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