Best Intercooler Setup!

[RO_SUNNY]

Hi everyone,

In the last couple of weeks I have think'd and over think'd about the best manifold setup and best intercooler setup.

And I came to this conclusion.

Best manifold setup will be this, due to the fact that you will have the best wastegate placement -->best boost control<-- and also the best flow.





Than I have thought about intercooler placement and so on.....and I came up to this........again best flow, small pipe run --> less turbo lag.




What do you guys think about this?

 

[keastygtir]

Looks awesome mate.

 

[PobodY]

Didn't Ed say that the pipe length isn't nearly as important as how smooth it is? - Logically less dead volume is better, but not if the mass of air can't flow freely.

I've probably got that a bit wrong.

 

[Jon Olds]

Interested in other ways of plumbing IC's also
Jon

 

[warringtonjack]

I'd be interested in people's thoughts on using chargecoolers instead of an intercooler. Direct piperun from turbo to inlet manifold, so theoretically reduced lag. Not sure how efficient they are in comparison with a 'big' intercooler though. Maybe Rob has some info after installing a chargecooler setup on his old R?

 

[RO_SUNNY]

Charge cooler means....with approximations.
Chargecooler full of coolant 20 kgs
Cooling rad full of coolant 10 kgs
Coolant reservoir 30 kgs

Typical air to air system approx 15 kgs..

So you will have around 45 kgs extra weight + the fact that the charge cooler will sit in the engine bay where temps can go as high as 200 C deg.

So......for road use and drag....the charge cooler will be fine but for hard road racing and track I don ' t think it will be ok.

But.....this is just my opinion!

 

[MarkTurbo]

Charge coolers are ok for drag cars but in my opinion a decent size air to air intercooler will always be more efficient.

 

[Fast Guy]

Vpulsar - any idea how much your pwrcooler system weighed? I'm guessing maybe 25kg full, if it didn't have a reservoir as such.


I think the best set up would be a Norris style where the intercooler inlet/outlet are over the top of the rad, but it means lowering the rad.
, but with the turbo in your position it's not as convenient. How about a top mount manifold?

 

[luke s]

I was all ways lead to belive top mounts arnt that good due to the heat they absorbe from the engine if the car is stationary eg traffic lights, so I'd opt for a front mount but if the ic is too big I'd say lag would be a lot worse? I remember from rs ext days lads use ing a quick shot of nos to overcome lag, then I heard about air injectors? Why not use a front mount with a water mister to aid cooling air passing the ic?

 

[PobodY]

The standard top mount is really not that bad; especially when the car is moving. - Even a front mount will suffer with heat soak if you're stopped in traffic; right next to a hot radiator with no air flow through either of them.
A top mount with a good core will probably perform better than a poorly designed (read "cheap") front mount.

I had an idea after reading about propane fridges; could you use the engine as a heat source to drive the boiling of something like ammonia? - I don't know how much it would weigh, but you could probably get something about the same weight as a air/water exchanger with reservoir.

 

[luke s]

Iv seen waterless antifreeze can't remember what it's called but it doesn't boil if that's true the a front mount with stuff potentialy won't suffer from heat soak?

 

[Fast Guy]

but with the turbo in your position it's not as convenient. How about a top mount manifold?

I was all ways lead to belive top mounts arnt that good due to the heat they absorbe from the engine if the car is stationary eg traffic lights,

I said Manifold ;-) ie exhaust manifold.

 

[Nick K]

Has anybody tried some sort of fan affair on the top mount? Is there space?

 

[Fast Guy]

I think it would kill the airflow over it myself due to the way it would come in through the vent and would be immediately met by a fan casing.

 

[Fusion Ed]

Few people really get intercoolers right IMHO. But doesn't mean the compromises we take daily are not acceptable or dont work, they are just not 100% optimised. When I get a chance I'll get some data from a typical front mount and show you what the typical fmic kit will do. In my experience, the long front mount kits really are not a problem. Its more of a problem every time the air has to make a tight 90deg turn. One way to check this out would be to measure air temp and pressure as it leaves the turbo and enters the inlet plenum. There are two components then left to analyse . Airflow restriction (aka raw pressure drop) and system efficiency by the way in removal of heat. By knowing how much pressure we should drop for a given lowering in temp and thus increase in air density we can then compare this against the actual recorded drop in pressure. The difference between the two is how restrictive the system is.

Something to think about anyway.

And again IMHO front mount rarely get heat soak, mainly as if the engine is hot the fans kick in and draw in cold air. cooling the IC down as well. And finally again IMHO, TMIC can work, but stock ECU cannot compensate safely for the wide changes in air temp, and this a bigger margin of safety must be programmed into the ECU, which results in less power.

 

[RO_SUNNY]

So...Ed....you are saying that my idea is good? )

 

[vpulsar]

Vpulsar - any idea how much your pwrcooler system weighed? I'm guessing maybe 25kg full, if it didn't have a reservoir as such.


I think the best set up would be a Norris style where the intercooler inlet/outlet are over the top of the rad, but it means lowering the rad.
, but with the turbo in your position it's not as convenient. How about a top mount manifold?

No idea Carl I never weighed it, I do think an air to air cooler is much better for a road car due to it's fit and forget nature unlike the charge cooler which you really need to keep an eye on, Plus it's lighter as has been quoted already.

 

[vpulsar]

Hopefully someone will be able to get data from my new uprated top mount, I will be using Nistune so that should give the adjustability that's required to get the best out of it.

 

[keastygtir]

can you get away with a small FMIC? I would have one but dont want a huge thing and massive pipe run

 

[grim_d]

Hopefully someone will be able to get date from my new uprated top mount, I will be using Nistune so that should give the adjustability that's required to get the best out of it.

I would love to know how the re-cored top mount fares. What kind of power are you hoping for? I have been thinking recently about re-cored top mounts and charge coolers as I need to redo my pipework so keen to explore other avenues.