234.9bhp - should I be worried or disappointed?

[GTI-R Kid]

Finally got our car up and running for the first time in years last week. After some head-wrecking teething problems its now running again (though far from finished) but I'm disappointed by our power vs mods and am wondering if the results are to be expected from a barely run-in engine or what?

The mods are as follows, and car had just covered 600km when run on the dyno. The dyno has a reputation for realistic, and possibly conservative figures so should be close enough to proper figures.

Rebuilt engine with 87mm pistons
1.2mm steel head gasket
Iridium plugs (1 grade colder)
Apexi cone filter mounted on custom intake piping and fitted behind headlight
D2 power FMIC
Mocal 16-row oil cooler
Engine earthing kit
Walbro 255l/hr fuel pump
Polished plenum and inlet manifold
1 bar boost on standard t28

The results were
234.9 bhp @ 6185rpm
221.1 lb/ft @ 4625rpm

Was I right to hope for more, or is this typical of an engine with so little mileage on it? Should I be worried? The dyno operator said that she'd find a few more ponies once another few hundred km's were under her belt, but that I wouldn't be looking at another 40bhp. Having seen so many on here with similar mods claim up to 300bhp I'm left quite confused over our car.

 

[MarkTurbo]

Is that power figure at the wheels or flywheel?

If its at the wheels i'd say it was about right but if its at the flywheel then theres gotta be a problem somewhere :? My car made 70 bhp more than that at slightly less boost ;-)

 

[GTI-R Kid]

Car also has a full Mongoose and the entire thing (right to where the tip slips on) is heat wrapped.

 

[Odin]

Not very good is it fella :doh: , I made 397bhp on 3 cylinders the other day lol lol lol.....

Sort yourself out paddy :roll: , Get some proper boost going ;-) .....



Rob

 

[GTI-R Kid]

Power is at the flywheel. At the wheels is 145.3bhp Drag power 80.9bhp.

Strange thing is that the car is idling better than ever, nice and smooth at 900rpm once warmed up. As far as I can remember the car used to idle at about 1100-1200rpm before the build.

A lot of the details on the print-out have me confused. Oil temperature of 25 degrees? Inlet temp at 38.5 degrees. Ambient temp 28.7 degrees. How can the inlet air temp be almost 10 degrees higher than ambient? Relative humidity 40.5%. And Max attained rpm was 6460 - so she wasn't revved out.

I don't know what to do or where to go. Not like we're spoilt for choice over here. Can anyone break down the numbers above for me?

Rob - could use help here matey. After spending a 5-digit figure on the car this year alone, smart comments arent really helping ease the worry.

 

[rayman75]

what fuel are you using???

that figure aint the best. i made 286bhp@fly and 279lbft on 1bar on a safc2, with std turbo and internals.

on a recent RR i made 334@fly and 318lbft on 1.2bar with e-manage ultimate, with std turbo and internals.

 

[AJ4]

is there any way you can scan the dyno sheet, so we can have a look at how your power and torque curves develop ? sometimes you can spot things from that.

The inlet temp sounds fine, the turbo heats the air up ( hence why we use intercoolers to bring it back down ).

 

[Odin]

Well on my standard turbo I made 286bhp at 1 bar and 311bhp at 1.2 bar, So that would suggest that somethings not quite right mate, That was with air filter/goose and a forge front mount.....

If your not happy with it and have trouble finding a good tuner in your part of the world, Then maybe it would be worth a trip over to blighty.

Maybe hitec/abby or norris depending on who's nearest to the ferry port....


Rob

 

[antgtir]

Have you checked for any leaks, gasket failure etc? I would do an overhaul on the engine i.e. check of all components before worrying yourself to death.

For 1 bar boost standard internals id be hoping to see figures from 275 to 290 bhp, are you 100% sure the dyno isn't fecked?

Ant.

 

[pulsarboby]

ive got to agree with rob on this one!
how is the car running when you drive it! more or less power than before?
those results are very poor at the flywheel!
i would ideally look somewhere else, as you do not know if his dyno has been calibrated correctly! do you know of anyone else who has recently had their car dynod there?
if so what were their results like?
you should have a pretty good idea by driving car as to approximate power output, if its gutless then theres obviously a problem somewhere!!

 

[youngsyp]

Just a quick thought, you don't have the base timing ridiculously retarded do you ?

 

[ashills]

i would take a guess that the knock sensor is knackered and retarding ignition or base is miles out
do the fault code test and see what it comes up with

 

[ram5ay]

Just a quick thought, you don't have the base timing ridiculously retarded do you ?

I was thinking the same thing, when I first got my std R it didnt even make 180 brake on the rollers, after adjusting my timing back up to 20 deg she made 217, quite a jump! Deff worth a check anyhow.

 

[Rishi]

Few things to bear in mind...

Am i correct in saying that in Ireland that you only have 95RON available...?

If so then you will be running less power than what people from England, Scotland and Wales quote with the same mods and setup... We generally use 98.6RON+ which our engines will be setup for...

Also bare in mind that if you do only have 95RON fuel there then the person who set it up will have brought back the timing for safe running on that fuel... May have even bought it back a little extra just incase...

If you are running 97RON+ then again the timing could just be retarded a little too much or you could have a faulty knock sensor which is retarding timing...

There are other things to look for but i would have a look at those things first...

Also as Ross says, can you scan up your dyno sheet...

One other possibility is that the dyno could be missreading... Also what cams are you using...? Just so we have a better idea of what you should be expecting from your car...


Rishi

 

[GTI-R Kid]

One at a time then.

Rayman - using regular 95 unleaded. Extremly hard to get super plus over here. Didn't use octane booster as I was hoping to have the car set up to run safe on regular.

AJ4 - printout now attached to this post.

Rob - taking it over the water is something I'm considering alright as I don't know who to go to or trust over here.

ANT - engine's only been rebuilt with all new gaskets, new bearings, new pistons, majority of hoses replaced, factory emmissions stuff junked.

pulsarboby - can't compare with how it was before as the cars been off the road for over 4 years so I can't remember. Driving the car it feels quick, turbo spooling (and making a serious noise) by 3000rpm and a surge in power at about 4200rpm. She certainly doesn't feel slow.

youngsyp & ram5ay - will be getting the timing checked on her asap. I was told it was fine so we'll see.

ashills - would the car still feel good on the road if the knock sensor was knackered?

 

[Rishi]

using regular 95 unleaded. Extremly hard to get super plus over here

Read my info above... Don't think you really need to be worrying....



Rishi

 

[GTI-R Kid]

Thanks Rishi, was typing and scanning when you posted so didn't see your post.

Car is relatively standard internally apart from the pistons and headgasket. Standard cams and standard tubby.

 

[GTI-R Kid]

Oh, Dyno should be accurate enough. Has one of the best reputations over here, and is known to be slightly conservative but overall very very accurate.

 

[Rishi]

Well really with std exhaust, intake, TMIC and 1bar boost you should be at around 250bhp - 260bhp on 97RON... With a decent exhaust and intake you are looking at around 270bhp - 280bhp... I'd say 235bhp on 95RON with your timing setup for that fuel with everything else std was just fine mate...


Rishi

 

[AJ4]

Dyno looks ok as well. The only thing I would say is you are hitting peak torque a bit low ( 4600 rpm), hence your low bhp. IIRC peak torque is usually around 5200 rpm for a standardish engine ? Could be due to a restriction on your inlet system somewhere.

You also said the inlet manifold is 'polished', how 'polished' is it ? Maybe its a bit too smooth after the injectors and the fuel is dropping out of suspension or something.